Raising the Bar

[Surfah]

True story:

I was in Spartanburg teaching a guy who worked at some factory there. The had been teaching him for a while, but I was new to the area so we stopped for an introduction. We started talking and the conversation turned to the atonement. He stopped my companion and said, "You know, I've heard this before. You kids always talk about it and I always wonder what you know about sin and forgiveness." Then he looks at me, "But this kid...he's raised some hell. It means something to him, and when he talks I pay attention."

I was actually a little ashamed that my past still showed in my countenance, but at the same time, I was glad that I could relate with him.

FN Phat and me met a guy out on the lake with a tattoo on his forearm that read "The Only Hell My Momma Raised Was Me." I don't know his momma but by the looks of him I'd have to agree.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

There was an LDS kid in my high school who was a year ahead of me. He was basically a heterosexual male slut- not only by LDS standards but almost anyone's standards. Also, no party ever occurred amongst the kids at my high school that his kid wasn't involved in during the four years he was there. Somehow this kid went out on a mission, how, I don't know.

He came back a changed person. It was a mystery to me and he married an uberhot girl. I hadn't checked on the guy in awhile, but apparently he's still active. How active? I typed his name into google and he appeared on a website that lists the donors to Prop. 8 who provided over $1,000.00. See, missions really can turn people around!

[BigPiney]

There was an LDS kid in my high school who was a year ahead of me. He was basically a heterosexual male slut- not only by LDS standards but almost anyone's standards. Also, no party ever occurred amongst the kids at my high school that his kid wasn't involved in during the four years he was there. Somehow this kid went out on a mission, how, I don't know.

He came back a changed person. It was a mystery to me and he married an uberhot girl. I hadn't checked on the guy in awhile, but apparently he's still active. How active? I typed his name into google and he appeared on a website that lists the donors to Prop. 8 who provided over $1,000.00. See, missions really can turn people around!

Quit stalking me already!

[byu71]

"Raising the bar" sounds like a lot more to me than simply avoiding an immoral moment with a girlfriend in high school.[/QUOTE]

I agree, I think too many are still not meeting the expectations required to send them out. They might be meeting the "girlfriend" goal, but there is much more to it.

When I see more football players on BYU not qualifying to go, I will be satisfied the bar has been raised high enough.

[wuapinmon]

That is not the only line in that scripture. Maybe this quote from Ballard will help you understand:

"Raising the bar" sounds like a lot more to me than simply avoiding an immoral moment with a girlfriend in high school.

MRD's comment was in response to my protest about the weight requirements, something that your quote did not address....however, in response to your Ballard quote:

Listen to those words, my young brethren: valiant, courage, strength, active, true. We don't need spiritually weak and semicommitted young men. We don't need you to just fill a position; we need your whole heart and soul. We need vibrant, thinking, passionate missionaries who know how to listen to and respond to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit. This isn't a time for spiritual weaklings. We cannot send you on a mission to be reactivated, reformed, or to receive a testimony. We just don't have time for that. We need you to be filled with "faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God" (D&C 4:5).

...

And that is not all we expect of you, my young brethren. We expect you to have an understanding and a solid testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. We expect you to work hard. We expect you to be covenant makers and covenant keepers. We expect you to be missionaries to match our glorious message.

I WAS OVERWEIGHT AND MY DESIRES TO SERVE WERE WHOLE-HEARTED AND RIGHTEOUS. I WAS FILLED WITH FAITH, HOPE, CHARITY, AND LOVE. I HAD AN UNDERSTANDING AND SOLID TESTIMONY OF THE RESTORED GOSPEL........I also kept the commandments, but because I was overweight.

This makes me so mad. It has damaged my testimony, ever since I saw that letter with the chart.

[Jarid in Cedar]

This is fun watching a pissing match between Lingo and Indy on who worked harder on their mission. Great entertainment gentlemen!

[JohnnyLingo]

This is fun watching a pissing match between Lingo and Indy on who worked harder on their mission. Great entertainment gentlemen!

/bow

[Donuthole]

MRD's comment was in response to my protest about the weight requirements, something that your quote did not address....however, in response to your Ballard quote:


I WAS OVERWEIGHT AND MY DESIRES TO SERVE WERE WHOLE-HEARTED AND RIGHTEOUS. I WAS FILLED WITH FAITH, HOPE, CHARITY, AND LOVE. I HAD AN UNDERSTANDING AND SOLID TESTIMONY OF THE RESTORED GOSPEL........I also kept the commandments, but because I was overweight.

This makes me so mad. It has damaged my testimony, ever since I saw that letter with the chart.

Dude, chill. Life is too short to take everything so personal. Hop on a treadmill, and get to work saving your heart and your testimony in one fell swoop.

[Pheidippides]

True story:

I was in Spartanburg teaching a guy who worked at some factory there. The had been teaching him for a while, but I was new to the area so we stopped for an introduction. We started talking and the conversation turned to the atonement. He stopped my companion and said, "You know, I've heard this before. You kids always talk about it and I always wonder what you know about sin and forgiveness." Then he looks at me, "But this kid...he's raised some hell. It means something to him, and when he talks I pay attention."

I was actually a little ashamed that my past still showed in my countenance, but at the same time, I was glad that I could relate with him.

The best and worst missionaries I knew in the mission field were wild as hell in high school. The thing that always bothered me about raising the bar was that it seemed to say "the atonement isn't for you."

One of the best missionaries I ever knew had been involved in a gang selling drugs and had numerous experiences with the underbelly of society, had done a good stretch in juvie, and had engaged the services of a hooker more than once. He cleaned up and went and was fantastic. The atonement meant something to him, and he had a passion about it.

This is true, and I'm largely in agreement to raising the bar as it relates to physical and mental health issues. However, I'm not a fan of disallowing a kid from serving a mission because he got laid in high school. I'd be really curious how much correlation there is between a kid who has the balls to tell his bishop about engaging in premarital sex, honestly repents and doesn't do it for a year and this same kind of kid turning into a rogue missionary. For every kid like this, there's probably five kids who just lie to the bishop about having sex or having a porn addiction and still end up out on a mission.

I present to you a few friends of mine. Guys who kissed and told, so to speak, boozed it up on the weekends, but went anyway. The stories about what they did on the mission were so bad they got back home somehow (albeit in an altered state, no doubt).

For every inch in height, it went up about 12 pounds. It's not BMI, it's height and weight, and says that bishops can "use discretion" when athleticism or muscle mass is obviously the cause for someone being outside the allowed parameters. When I read that I was so hopping mad that I almost got up and left the meeting. Not only do we all have to look alike in white shirts and ties, apparently now anyone who doesn't physically look "clean cut" is unworthy to serve a mission. That is so fucking lame.

Agreed, health nut though I've become. If the weight is something that causes physical limitations, that should perhaps be taken into account (as would anything else that causes physical limitations) but a right-out bar? Nonsensical.

I was a teacher at the MTC just prior to the "raise the bar" talk. Social pressures being what they are in the LDS church, I am heartily convinced that it give more incentive for unrepentant sinners to lie about their misdeeds than it gives goody-two-shoes types incentive to stay that way. And the former are the ones you'd rather not go. The people who I liked teaching the most at the MTC were the sinners who had come to Jesus. They knew why they were there and, dammit, they were going to serve.

[Indy Coug]

MRD's comment was in response to my protest about the weight requirements, something that your quote did not address....however, in response to your Ballard quote:


I WAS OVERWEIGHT AND MY DESIRES TO SERVE WERE WHOLE-HEARTED AND RIGHTEOUS. I WAS FILLED WITH FAITH, HOPE, CHARITY, AND LOVE. I HAD AN UNDERSTANDING AND SOLID TESTIMONY OF THE RESTORED GOSPEL........I also kept the commandments, but because I was overweight.

This makes me so mad. It has damaged my testimony, ever since I saw that letter with the chart.

People are asked to give up sex, smoking, drinking, 10% of their income and so forth to join this church. Given that, is it necessarily all that unreasonable or inconsistent to ask of prospective missionaries to get themselves into shape to serve a mission?

I will say that if this is going to be a standard that is fairly rigorously enforced, then the church needs to publicize this requirement so that prospective missionaries have a sufficient heads up to prepare accordingly. I don't believe they are doing that right now.

[RC Vikings]

You're a hoot. Did you read the thread where pretty much everyone agreed that they'd never want to be a bishop, just like me?

Impressive that you can read my mind like that. Have you considered joining a circus, or perhaps a carnival of some kind?

I would be very surprised if anybody on this entire board believed that you really wouldn't like to be a bishop or have a management position at work. When 71 agreed to mentor you I had hope but you are still a dink.

[JohnnyLingo]

I would be very surprised if anybody on this entire board believed that you really wouldn't like to be a bishop or have a management position at work. When 71 agreed to mentor you I had hope but you are still a dink.

Come now, let's not make statements we can't back up.

[wuapinmon]

Dude, chill. Life is too short to take everything so personal. Hop on a treadmill, and get to work saving your heart and your testimony in one fell swoop.

Do not lecture me about things which you cannot possibly comprehend. I've been fat since I was born, regardless of what I've tried--I walked 10-12 miles a day on the mission, ate well, and still never got below 265...ever. So, don't tell me that hopping on a treadmill is the solution. If you don't want to hear about it, put me on ignore, but I'll not abide you dismissing as trivial something that wounds me deeply.

[wuapinmon]

People are asked to give up sex, smoking, drinking, 10% of their income and so forth to join this church. Given that, is it necessarily all that unreasonable or inconsistent to ask of prospective missionaries to get themselves into shape to serve a mission?

I will say that if this is going to be a standard that is fairly rigorously enforced, then the church needs to publicize this requirement so that prospective missionaries have a sufficient heads up to prepare accordingly. I don't believe they are doing that right now.

And what if that person does everything they can, sincerely, to get in shape, and their body just won't shed the pounds?

[JohnnyLingo]

And what if that person does everything they can, sincerely, to get in shape, and their body just won't shed the pounds?

I believe this is impossible.

Flame away.