Monson's April 2009 Prophet address

[Levin]

The Sunday morning one, where we get the main message from the Prophet.

I finally listened to it; it didn't sit right. It was about being of good cheer in tough circumstances. He used three anecdotes to illustrate the possibility of being so. The final one was about an East German with her four children who had to travel from East to West during WWII. She had to walk, a thousand miles apparently. Along the way, each one of her children died -- of starvation. For the first three, she dug the graves in the frozen ground with a teaspoon. For the last one, she dug with her bare hands.

And when she arrived at her destination, now childless, she poured out her heart in faith and thanksgiving.

I found this story not only apocryphal, but counterproductive. Way over the top for the purpose in which it was given. Instead of going to the extremes to illustrate the "be of good cheer in tough circumstances" point, why not use a contemporary example: the overworked, stretched-thin, young father with three callings, moody wife, ornery neighbors, suffering a crisis of faith in an increasingly sterilized and soft Church? Or a mother with a distant husband, carrying the child-raising load alone, isolated in vinyl-fenced surbubia, disconnected from increasingly needy parents, frustrated by catty and superficial Relief Society lessons, checking out of the competitive free-for-all that is modern-day parenting, etc.???

I found his talk utterly useless, frankly. Almost like a fairy tale, an allegory, a parable, and fable. Speak to us like adults, and we'll respond like adults. Speak to us like children and we'll respond like children -- we'll tune out.

[Fiyero]

why not use a contemporary example

That's the argument that I've been making for years but it is rarely well-received. I don't want to hear about the Laurels in Bulgaria who sold peanut butter to save Edna's kidney. I don't want the profound message to be "if you feel hopeless with a bleak future, remember that 2000 years ago there was a person who felt that way too, and thanks to his willingness to have the shit beat out of him you get to live forever." Goody.

[All-American]

Instead of going to the extremes to illustrate the "be of good cheer in tough circumstances" point, why not use a contemporary example: the overworked, stretched-thin, young father with three callings, moody wife, ornery neighbors, suffering a crisis of faith in an increasingly sterilized and soft Church?

Because people already complain that he talks about himself too much.

[Indy Coug]

The Sunday morning one, where we get the main message from the Prophet.

I finally listened to it; it didn't sit right. It was about being of good cheer in tough circumstances. He used three anecdotes to illustrate the possibility of being so. The final one was about an East German with her four children who had to travel from East to West during WWII. She had to walk, a thousand miles apparently. Along the way, each one of her children died -- of starvation. For the first three, she dug the graves in the frozen ground with a teaspoon. For the last one, she dug with her bare hands.

And when she arrived at her destination, now childless, she poured out her heart in faith and thanksgiving.

I found this story not only apocryphal, but counterproductive. Way over the top for the purpose in which it was given. Instead of going to the extremes to illustrate the "be of good cheer in tough circumstances" point, why not use a contemporary example: the overworked, stretched-thin, young father with three callings, moody wife, ornery neighbors, suffering a crisis of faith in an increasingly sterilized and soft Church? Or a mother with a distant husband, carrying the child-raising load alone, isolated in vinyl-fenced surbubia, disconnected from increasingly needy parents, frustrated by catty and superficial Relief Society lessons, checking out of the competitive free-for-all that is modern-day parenting, etc.???

I found his talk utterly useless, frankly. Almost like a fairy tale, an allegory, a parable, and fable. Speak to us like adults, and we'll respond like adults. Speak to us like children and we'll respond like children -- we'll tune out.

Since you neglected to mention the first two anecdotes and gripe about them, I take it that they were basically on point?

[Levin]

That's the argument that I've been making for years but it is rarely well-received. I don't want to hear about the Laurels in Bulgaria who sold peanut butter to save Edna's kidney. I don't want the profound message to be "if you feel hopeless with a bleak future, remember that 2000 years ago there was a person who felt that way too, and thanks to his willingness to have the shit beat out of him you get to live forever." Goody.

Not sure I understand your last example. Hope it's TIC.

My point isn't as much about the example being contemporary, but it being relatable.

By using such an over the top example, it became a fable.

[Levin]

Because people already complain that he talks about himself too much.

Elder Maxwell talked about him plenty -- and it helped, as far as I can tell.

[Levin]

Since you neglected to mention the first two anecdotes and gripe about them, I take it that they were basically on point?

No, they were also hyperbolic: just not quite as hyperbolic as the last over-the-top-digging-graves-with-teaspoon-and-bare-hands hyperbolic.

[All-American]

How about this, then, from President Hinckley:

I come this morning with a plea that we stop seeking out the storms and enjoy more fully the sunlight. I am suggesting that we "accentuate the positive." I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment virtue and effort. I am not asking that all criticism be silenced. Growth comes of correction. Strength comes of repentance. Wise is the man who can acknowledge mistakes pointed out by others and change his course. I am not suggesting that our conversation be all honey and blossoms. Clever expression that is sincere and honest is a skill to be sought and cultivated.

What I am suggesting and asking is that we turn from the negativism that so permeates our society and look for the remarkable good in the land and times in which we live, that we speak of one another's virtues more than we speak of one another's faults, that optimism replace pessimism, that our faith exceed our fears.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6055

[UtahDan]

I think you are overreacting a bit, Levin. I agree that it made have been a bit of a sledge hammer in terms of making the point, but the idea that one has the ability to chose how they will respond to adversity, particularly internally, is not a concept unique to the President Monson or the church. I don't have a problem with using a story like that as an inspirational device and I don't view it as talking down to you. I think you described it as a parable. Do you not like these in general? I only ask because if you do it highlights that your issue is not really with President Monson.

[Solon]

The Sunday morning one, where we get the main message from the Prophet.

I finally listened to it; it didn't sit right. It was about being of good cheer in tough circumstances. He used three anecdotes to illustrate the possibility of being so. The final one was about an East German with her four children who had to travel from East to West during WWII. She had to walk, a thousand miles apparently. Along the way, each one of her children died -- of starvation. For the first three, she dug the graves in the frozen ground with a teaspoon. For the last one, she dug with her bare hands.

And when she arrived at her destination, now childless, she poured out her heart in faith and thanksgiving.

I found this story not only apocryphal, but counterproductive. Way over the top for the purpose in which it was given. Instead of going to the extremes to illustrate the "be of good cheer in tough circumstances" point, why not use a contemporary example: the overworked, stretched-thin, young father with three callings, moody wife, ornery neighbors, suffering a crisis of faith in an increasingly sterilized and soft Church? Or a mother with a distant husband, carrying the child-raising load alone, isolated in vinyl-fenced surbubia, disconnected from increasingly needy parents, frustrated by catty and superficial Relief Society lessons, checking out of the competitive free-for-all that is modern-day parenting, etc.???

I found his talk utterly useless, frankly. Almost like a fairy tale, an allegory, a parable, and fable. Speak to us like adults, and we'll respond like adults. Speak to us like children and we'll respond like children -- we'll tune out.

Here is the link, in case anyone needs to read it for him/herself.

I hadn't read/heard it yet, so I went and found it. I agree with Levin that the examples are hyperbolic (although she dug the graves with a tablespoon, not a teaspoon - probably went 3x faster with the larger spoon), but I imagine President Monson wanted extreme examples to drive his point home (which was, IMO, "lots of people have had it worse. Suck it up.).

In passing, though, I think anyone who expresses "overwhelming gratitude" after burying her four children by hand is literally insane. There are saner ways to use faith while grieving (IMO).

[scottie]

We talked about that talk a little bit here: http://cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=4106

[Commando]

lots of people mad at the Church on this board I see...

[byu71]

lots of people mad at the Church on this board I see...

Wait until Oklahoma buries us. Instead of criticizing talks, we will move onto criticizing play calling.

I find talks, including those of politicians about the 1 person out of 1 million and their plite or heroics to be interesting, but that is where it ends.

When Obama brings up some lady who can't get an operation, I think, where are her friends, where is her church, where is her family. I also think of the millions of Americans who can get the operation.

[Levin]

In passing, though, I think anyone who expresses "overwhelming gratitude" after burying her four children by hand is literally insane. There are saner ways to use faith while grieving (IMO).

Exactly. My brother just lost a daughter last month -- she was 10, and died of cancer. He and his wife are struggling immensely. The story President Monson used reinforces how we are "supposed to" respond. What about parents who don't respond in this way -- at least immediately -- upon losing a child, or two, or three, or four, as this woman did? Are they less faithful?

I think responding to this type of adversity is a very organic thing, something that changes and evolves -- people with faith are supported through the process with the hope that springs from faith -- but the clean/cut, sudden, and overwhelming gratitude of the woman was unrealistic, and unhealthy, IMO. And it placed doubts in many grieving hearts who wondered whether they were not responding as they should.

The story just isn't from reality (the woman may have related the story, but I highly doubt its veracity), and to use the woman as a realistic example of how we should be in such circumstances was foolish, IMO.

If it was meant to be a parable, then tell it as one.

[Levin]

How about this, then, from President Hinckley:



http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6055

I love that speech; true words, indeed.