April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[old_gregg]

"For those of us involved in the cultural and educational struggles of our time, the Psalmist gives good counsel. Yes, we are disturbed and troubled, but we are not prophets or saviors. It would be far, far better for us if we pondered and waited, prayed and offered our sacrifices, in a quieter trust than we sometimes display. It’s true that we ought not be entirely silent, we cannot in good conscience abdicate responsibility or abandon the vulnerable, but we can be quietly insistent, unrelenting in our efforts, because we have the essential virtue of hope.

My resolution for 2020 is to learn a quiet hope. It would do me well.

It might do many of us well."

alone that is a nice sentiment, but it follows smug, melodramatic and judgmental "gasping and raging" that is the exact opposite of his prescription for how people ought to think and behave:

Many religious leaders [offer] a thin gruel of therapeutic deism, cheap symbolic activism, carefully couched heresy, and uninspiring nonsense instead of sound doctrine and right reason.

The schools and universities are adrift, apparently ignorant of their higher purposes, or outright hostile to them.

Libraries and primary schools promote perversion, celebrating disorder and confusion about sex and gender, all while beaming with self-congratulation and pride for destroying the innocence and well-being of their vulnerable charges.

Fertility has collapsed, as those without purpose or hope refuse the human project.

We continue to slaughter the unborn in the womb, with countless embryos discarded or frozen

Our cultured despisers livestream their abortions and fête themselves with galas and awards. Pornography warps the bodies and souls of the young.

it’s all too easy to conclude that ours is not the age of Pericles and Themistocles. Wordsworth could be writing of us that we are “a fen / Of stagnant waters: altar, sword, and pen. . . . / We are selfish men / Oh! raise us up, return to us again / And give us manners, virtue, freedom, power.”

The spiritually impoverished don’t recognize their poverty; in fact, they think they are awake, seeing farther and better than anyone else.

In their pretension, they gasp and rage, proclaiming wisdom while aghast that so few heed them. But in the poverty of their hopelessness, they risk becoming fools.

[creekster]

"the entire world is falling around us, the godless are microwaving babies and making our kids trans, university professors are laughing at us and let their students lead more than 13th century dominican friars! but let's maintain a quiet (but not too quiet--can't let the world forget that the high priesthood of religious academia sits in judgment always) hope that god will descend in rage and glory and smite them."

"For those of us involved in the cultural and educational struggles of our time, the Psalmist gives good counsel. Yes, we are disturbed and troubled, but we are not prophets or saviors. It would be far, far better for us if we pondered and waited, prayed and offered our sacrifices, in a quieter trust than we sometimes display. It’s true that we ought not be entirely silent, we cannot in good conscience abdicate responsibility or abandon the vulnerable, but we can be quietly insistent, unrelenting in our efforts, because we have the essential virtue of hope.

My resolution for 2020 is to learn a quiet hope. It would do me well.

It might do many of us well."

And only mine is an actual quotation. Or perhaps you're quoting something else?

[old_gregg]

I didn't care for all of it, particularly because of its brevity it lacked any nuance (for example, condemning 'deism' is fairly meaningless without a bit more explanation) but I find it no more intolerably smug than, say, the tone of your response. But to each their own I suppose.

"the entire world is falling around us, the godless are microwaving babies and making our kids trans, university professors are laughing at us and let their students lead more than 13th century dominican friars! but let's maintain a quiet (but not too quiet--can't let the world forget that the high priesthood of religious academia sits in judgment always) hope that god will descend in rage and glory and smite them."

[Brian]

I had lunch with The Dude once in Provo.

He pointed out to me that, a lot of the time with church issues, we are all fired up about stuff that doesn't really matter.
He told me, in effect, that once a person lets go & stops worrying about the crap that doesn't matter in Mormonism, the church, religion, etc., it is a lot easier to start caring about the stuff that really matters - like helping other people and living a virtuous life. I takes a lot of confidence to live that way - to shrug off the nonsense and keep focused on the essentials. Most people are probably trying their best to do the right thing, and most of the time they deserve the benefit of the doubt (This probably applies to any organization or religion).

I apologize if I'm misremembering, Lebowski, but that's what I remember.

It was good advice, and I reflect upon it often.

The Dude Abides.

That's good advice. Thanks for sharing.
It reminds me of something that John Larsen says a lot on the Sunstone podcast. He says in effect, 'some post-mormons trade one kind of black and white thinking for another kind of black and white thinking'.

The ego is hard to kill.

[creekster]

this is intolerably smug and far more cynical and apocalyptic than whatever it is he's critiquing. maybe people derive a quiet hope from "a thin gruel of therapeutic deism." the tone of this is corrosive, and the fact that it was quoted at gc is embarrassing.

this may be the climax of the circlejerk:

I didn't care for all of it, particularly because of its brevity it lacked any nuance (for example, condemning 'deism' is fairly meaningless without a bit more explanation) but I find it no more intolerably smug than, say, the tone of your response. The point of the essay is not to condemn, but to encourage an attitude of hope and quiet religious commitment. I did not find that very smug or embarrassing. But to each their own I suppose.

[old_gregg]

For those of you interested, this is the essay from which Holland took his quotation about religious commitment being in decline. I liked this essay, as it mirrors many of my own thoughts.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/12/59322/

I have not been on the board much lately and so apologize if this is redundant info.

this is intolerably smug and far more cynical and apocalyptic than whatever it is he's critiquing. maybe people derive a quiet hope from "a thin gruel of therapeutic deism." the tone of this is corrosive, and the fact that it was quoted at gc is embarrassing.

this may be the climax of the circlejerk:

Our cultured despisers livestream their abortions and fête themselves with galas and awards.

[creekster]

Conference is essentially 10 hours of above-average Sac Mtg talks. Every six months we get an avalanche of non-descript blasé boilerplate that buries whatever came before it. In 5 years, or roughly 100 hours of conference talks later, I will be shocked if you can remember anything from yesterday or today.

You know people have had the teaching of the two great commandments in the Law, to love God and to love your neighbor, for well over 2000 years, but still they need to be reminded to try to observe them. Oh, that it were as simple as fixing some code.

[creekster]

For those of you interested, this is the essay from which Holland took his quotation about religious commitment being in decline. I liked this essay, as it mirrors many of my own thoughts.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/12/59322/

I have not been on the board much lately and so apologize if this is redundant info.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I had lunch with The Dude once in Provo.

He pointed out to me that, a lot of the time with church issues, we are all fired up about stuff that doesn't really matter.
He told me, in effect, that once a person lets go & stops worrying about the crap that doesn't matter in Mormonism, the church, religion, etc., it is a lot easier to start caring about the stuff that really matters - like helping other people and living a virtuous life. I takes a lot of confidence to live that way - to shrug off the nonsense and keep focused on the essentials. Most people are probably trying their best to do the right thing, and most of the time they deserve the benefit of the doubt (This probably applies to any organization or religion).

I apologize if I'm misremembering, Lebowski, but that's what I remember.

It was good advice, and I reflect upon it often.

The Dude Abides.

That is kind of you. I remember that lunch very well. Would love to do it again sometime.

[Solon]

I had lunch with The Dude once in Provo.

He pointed out to me that, a lot of the time with church issues, we are all fired up about stuff that doesn't really matter.
He told me, in effect, that once a person lets go & stops worrying about the crap that doesn't matter in Mormonism, the church, religion, etc., it is a lot easier to start caring about the stuff that really matters - like helping other people and living a virtuous life. I takes a lot of confidence to live that way - to shrug off the nonsense and keep focused on the essentials. Most people are probably trying their best to do the right thing, and most of the time they deserve the benefit of the doubt (This probably applies to any organization or religion).

I apologize if I'm misremembering, Lebowski, but that's what I remember.

It was good advice, and I reflect upon it often.

The Dude Abides.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Wait, so are you telling me that we will hear a regurgitated summation of these 10 hours of Conference talks during the next 6 months of Sac Mtg?

You should have trigger warning'd that post my dude.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Conference is essentially 10 hours of above-average Sac Mtg talks. Every six months we get an avalanche of non-descript blasé boilerplate that buries whatever came before it. In 5 years, or roughly 100 hours of conference talks later, I will be shocked if you can remember anything from yesterday or today.

[YOhio]

Remember when Lavell spoke at conference? That was rad.

[jay santos]

I was expecting something on Saturday night. Bingham on working together and then Oaks on priesthood... I was expecting an announcement that women would be given more callings, or something. Was I the only one thinking he was laying the groundwork for some announcement?

I totally thought that. Seemed like they were leading up to a significant announcement.

[Brian]

Some great moments, few low moments, and a lot of boring stuff. So, I guess it's par for the course for me.
I thought the highlights were asking normal people to speak, a really cool touch. I liked James Rasband's take on finding some new personal insights from the BoM. I'd like to go through the text once it's available. His comment that young people can feel what you think their potential is based on how you treat them really hit me. That's good ol' fashioned religion that can make a difference in the world.

I wonder if Holland changed his talk last minute (meaning, in the last few weeks). It seemed like two talks. It was refreshing to see someone address the pain and suffering that people are going through right now. I'm disappointed more people didn't do that. Hearing about the restoration stories for the n-th time doesn't really help at the present moment. Came off as a little tone deaf, in my opinion. Back to Holland. I'm curious about what he meant when he addressed the decline of religion in the world. I wondered if he was also talking to the people in the red chairs. I'd need to read the text to see. I was reminded of this quote I heard from Ostler in an interview about his book:

"It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the decline of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion — its message becomes meaningless."
-- American Jewish scholar Abraham Joshua Heschel (1907-72), in his book "God in Search of Man,"

I was expecting something on Saturday night. Bingham on working together and then Oaks on priesthood... I was expecting an announcement that women would be given more callings, or something. Was I the only one thinking he was laying the groundwork for some announcement?