9 AM Press Conference

[old_gregg]

Factual scenario: DFU spent a little bit too much time in Crimson up on the hill with KFW. There are some things that are only forgivable in the next life.

i think we learn in the temple that his blood is required to atone

[USUC]

I wonder if Uchtdorf really was that progressive. Or was he just able to move forward with the same doctrine and policy in a Christ-like way? I think sometimes Oaks' problem is that he was trained as a lawyer/advocate, so he tends to be plain and seemingly confrontational to make sure his point is clear. But I am not sure just how progressive Uchtdofr really was, although I personally prefer Dieter's style over all the rest.

I agree with this. I don't think "progressive" and "conservative" is the right way to frame their differences. I see it more as personality differences as opposed to political/philosophical differences. Some people are letter of the law types that focus on purity of process. To deviate from the process is their concern, hence they often focus more on the consequences of deviating from the established path. Some people are better suited to speak about the human experience and love. Personality differences don't necessarily mean there is a philosophical difference.

[Brian]

Nobody on this board could be a bigger DFU fan than me, but I didn't see this as any kind of symbolic swipe against his popularity or progressive nature. DHO is next in line to be the prophet. Makes total sense to put him in the presidency. Anyone who sees any meaning beyond that is looking to stir up drama.

Well, the other side of that argument is that plenty of presidents were never in the FP. Including the current president.

Surely some will stir up drama, but the question of whether DFU got "Hugh B. Browned" is an obvious one to ask.

[Clark Addison]

I don't know if I buy completely into all of Jay Santos' theories, but I am probably more open to it than most here. Losing a first counselor is rare enough to think that there may be a reason for it other than "I've sat next to this other guy for the last 30 years". The reason may be very positive, but if it weren't it's not like they would say anything else (understandably).

Obviously I have no inside info, and I may be influenced by the fact that DFU is my favorite apostle and DHO is my least favorite (though I have no real animus toward him).

Also, is no one going to give Hostile clappy hands for his Alvin Dyer/fence sitting reference?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I wonder if Uchtdorf really was that progressive. Or was he just able to move forward with the same doctrine and policy in a Christ-like way? I think sometimes Oaks' problem is that he was trained as a lawyer/advocate, so he tends to be plain and seemingly confrontational to make sure his point is clear. But I am not sure just how progressive Uchtdofr really was, although I personally prefer Dieter's style over all the rest.

Exactly. I don't think DFU is as overtly progressive nor are the others as hardliner as progmos like to imagine.

[Northwestcoug]

Probably cause they were fence sitters in the pre existence

There you go, Clark.

[ERCougar]

Where is ERCoug to give us the lowdown on how John Dehlin feels about this change?

No idea! (Really? Am I supposed to?)

Nobody on this board could be a bigger DFU fan than me, but I didn't see this as any kind of symbolic swipe against his popularity or progressive nature. DHO is next in line to be the prophet. Makes total sense to put him in the presidency. Anyone who sees any meaning beyond that is looking to stir up drama.

That being said, the biggest downside of this is that we will likely get to hear fewer DFU talks in GC. Bummer. DHO talks are a little too legalistic for my tastes.

Yup. DHO is next in line, and I have no idea how duties break down, but I think Eyring was 1st counselor anyway? So just rotate out the lowest guy.

I haven't seen any ex-mo angst, Moliere. Mostly some shrugs and a fair sprinkling of derision. I saw a video posted of the response to white American guys representing a church membership that includes women and people who aren't American, and to be honest, they sort of earned the derision with the tone-deafness of the answer. Otherwise, Nelson isn't very polarizing and people have seen Oaks coming for a while, so...meh. Products of their times.

[hostile]

There you go, Clark.

[The_Tick]

I agree with this. I don't think "progressive" and "conservative" is the right way to frame their differences. I see it more as personality differences as opposed to political/philosophical differences. Some people are letter of the law types that focus on purity of process. To deviate from the process is their concern, hence they often focus more on the consequences of deviating from the established path. Some people are better suited to speak about the human experience and love. Personality differences don't necessarily mean there is a philosophical difference.

Thanks for posting this USUC. It helps me wrap my mind around a few things. Greatly appreciated.

[Sizzle]

Well, the other side of that argument is that plenty of presidents were never in the FP. Including the current president.

Surely some will stir up drama, but the question of whether DFU got "Hugh B. Browned" is an obvious one to ask.

So as the new prophet, maybe he wished he had some of that same opportunity and is wanting to extend that prep to the "next man up" so to speak?

[Maximus]

Don't expect any progress on women's rights or LGBT issues for a decade or two then.

not even sure what possible progress there is on LGBT without a serious change in doctrine

[Moliere]

I agree with this. I don't think "progressive" and "conservative" is the right way to frame their differences. I see it more as personality differences as opposed to political/philosophical differences. Some people are letter of the law types that focus on purity of process. To deviate from the process is their concern, hence they often focus more on the consequences of deviating from the established path. Some people are better suited to speak about the human experience and love. Personality differences don't necessarily mean there is a philosophical difference.

Definitely true. DFU was in the first presidency when the latest policy on baptizing kids of LGBT parents was issued. If he were really that progressive, he wouldn't have supported it.

I'll miss DFU mostly because I think he brings a perspective that didn't exist. One of an outsider. He reminded me more of the people I met in France than the Utah Mormons I grew up with. One's not better than the other, but it was nice for the Europeans to have a voice they could more closely relate to...and they'll still have that but not in as high of a capacity. My hope, which is probably in vain, is that the new apostles called will be Causse and then one from south america. But chances are, they'll be white men from the good 'ol USA.

[All-American]

I just realized something. With President Monson's passing, there has now been 100% turnover in the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve over the course of my lifetime.

[Donuthole]

I just realized something. With President Monson's passing, there has now been 100% turnover in the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve over the course of my lifetime.

Same for everyone born after 1963, right?

[ByronMarchant]

Isn't this the first time in 46 years that a member of the first presidency has been demoted? That's what I've been hearing.