Let your light shine or Keep it on the DL?

[taekwondave]

Intent. Why are you doing your good works? To receive glory? If so, then the second bit applies. If your good works are out of love of God and your fellow man, then keep it up, no matter who sees your efforts.

Are you saying then it's ok to pray in public if your intent is positive? Or to give money to the poor in public? What do you think of the saying "the path to hell is paved with good intentions?"

I like your answer, and I'm not sure I disagree with it, but are these verses really only dealing with intent?

[Pelado]

Are you saying then it's ok to pray in public if your intent is positive? Or to give money to the poor in public? What do you think of the saying "the path to hell is paved with good intentions?"

I like your answer, and I'm not sure I disagree with it, but are these verses really only dealing with intent?

Where is the scriptural citation for that quote? Need to know if it was from Jesus or some lesser authority.

I see no problem with sincere public prayer or alms-giving. That said, its publicity would likely lead me to question its sincerity.

[taekwondave]

You really want lists of column A = good works to be seen and column B = good works to be hidden; complete with instructions of how to go about hiding or showing them? Moses would break some stone tablets over your head and Jesus would give you a very loving facepalm.

Now lest you think I will only ever give you snarky responses: One of the great things about the gospel as taught by Jesus is that what matters most is what is in our hearts. Two seemingly contradictory commandments can be reconciled if our actions have the proper motivation. The only way I see conflict between the two scriptures you quote is if you want to live your life as a series of lists to check off or avoid. Yes we devolve into that in Mormonism too often but the gospel as taught by Jesus (and in many ways Joseph) was not meant to be this way ultimately.

Ok you're the second person to bring up intent so I think there may be something to this. I think it's obvious intent matters TOO, but from what you seemed to just say is that in the Gospel of Jesus Christ ONLY intent matters. What you do doesn't matter in God's eyes, even if it's wrong, if your intent was to do good. Is that what you're saying? I took a philosophy class at BYU and we once discussed this concept, although not in this biblical context. Maybe someone can help me: as I recall one philosopher argued intent meant nothing, that only action mattered, and the other philosopher argued just the opposite. Our modern legal system seems to take both into account, but I'm not sure, based on what you just said, that Jesus' gospel does. Or does it?

[Goatnapper'96]

How do you reconcile these two pieces of seemingly conflicting advice (commandments?) given by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, in practice? When do you think it's appropriate to show other people you're doing the right thing versus when it's not? I find this fascinating and I'd be curious to hear your different takes on it.

1. "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.." Matthew 5:14-16

2. Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven...But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly...(or) when thou prayest...enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matthew 6:1-6

I think it is intent. It is pretty simple. Be you and do good because it is good not to get the glory of men. The alms folks wanted the glory for givin' to the po, the City on a Hill does good and glorifies God and the goodness attracts others to God.

Why is this complex enough to even warrant an explanation is probably a better question?

Keep keepin' on Brother!

[taekwondave]

Where is the scriptural citation for that quote? Need to know if it was from Jesus or some lesser authority.

I see no problem with sincere public prayer or alms-giving. That said, its publicity would likely lead me to question its sincerity.

No I'm quite sure it's not a scripture. That's why I asked you what your thought on it was--I wasn't throwing it at you as some form of authoritative scriptural argument.

As to your statement regarding sincerity, that seems to go back to intent, which is where most other people are going with this. Do you think that's what Jesus is getting at here? Intent/sincerity?

[taekwondave]

Why is this complex enough to even warrant an explanation is probably a better question?

Really? The "why are we even talking about this" question is a better question than my question? How about, why did you bother responding to something that wasn't worth discussing? Is that an interesting question too?

[jay santos]

Why is this complex enough to even warrant an explanation is probably a better question?

Because Exmo Reddit is on fire trying to find reasons to criticize the Lighttheworld campaign.

[taekwondave]

Because Exmo Reddit is on fire trying to find reasons to criticize the Lighttheworld campaign.

You sound like you spend a lot of time on exmo reddit. But now that you mention it, I think you're right. That is probably how this popped into my head.

[Goatnapper'96]

Really? The "why are we even talking about this" question is a better question than my question? How about, why did you bother responding to something that wasn't worth discussing? Is that an interesting question too?

Dave: Somewhere you claimed to like the scriptures. I think the New Testament teachings make the concept of intent and attitudes absolutely crucial to one's development. I believe it is about the transition of "eye for an eye" )aka Old Covenant( to "love one another" or "turn the other cheek" )aka the New Covenant(. It is hard IMO to read the New Testament seriously and not catch on to that very basic concept which is in the eye of God why you do what you do is as important as what you do because in time we will all follow our desires. Christian theology seems pretty clear that the purpose of the Atonement is to allow us all a new birth which in effect changes our very desires so that what we want becomes what God wants.

[Goatnapper'96]

Because Exmo Reddit is on fire trying to find reasons to criticize the Lighttheworld campaign.

One conclusion I made as I wandered into middle age is the communities with whom we affiliate will influence us more than we will influence it.

To summarize: Don't hang around pussies.

[falafel]

Isn't there some religious themed board you can take these discussions to?

[taekwondave]

You sound like you spend a lot of time on exmo reddit. But now that you mention it, I think you're right. That is probably how this popped into my head.

That said, while I know exmo reddit jumps all over everything the church does in hopes of finding a case to to accuse them of something, I don't personally see anything wrong with this. Isn't just a way to give people ideas for service? Or does it encourage people to come back and post what service projects they did on social media or something? Because either way it would fit nicely in this discussion. Where is that line? Can you argue that because the intent is to grow the church and give it good publicity that there's nothing wrong with it? That it's a city on a hill kind of thing? Because that line of thinking could also encourage one to go so far as to lie about service given or lie about the church in order to make it look good, because that would also be sanctioned under this "anything goes when your heart is in the right place" rule we've been discussing here.

Yeah. I would have to say this is probably how I started thinking about this. Didn't even realize it. I am fucking transparent to everybody but myself

[kccougar]

So doing alms and fasting/prayer is a light unto the world that everyone needs to see? You honestly don't see the distinction between that and acting as a righteous example of good works? I find that hard to believe.

If he could handle non-binary thinking, he'd probably still be in the church.

[taekwondave]

Dave: Somewhere you claimed to like the scriptures. I think the New Testament teachings make the concept of intent and attitudes absolutely crucial to one's development. I believe it is about the transition of "eye for an eye" )aka Old Covenant( to "love one another" or "turn the other cheek" )aka the New Covenant(. It is hard IMO to read the New Testament seriously and not catch on to that very basic concept which is in the eye of God why you do what you do is as important as what you do because in time we will all follow our desires. Christian theology seems pretty clear that the purpose of the Atonement is to allow us all a new birth which in effect changes our very desires so that what we want becomes what God wants.

Yes. Good stuff. But you bring up something interesting: you said that WHY we do something is as important as WHAT we do. That is the crux of the philosophical question here. Is why you do something REALLY as important as what you do? Can't you think of a lot of instances where that's not the case? I can think of a lot.

I think saying that WHY you do something is ALSO important is probably more valid than AS important.

[jay santos]

Yeah. I would have to say this is probably how I started thinking about this. Didn't even realize it. I am fucking transparent to everybody but myself

It's OK. I have kind of an Exmo ministry. I'm usually very gentle. But I lose my patience from time to time. This issue is one I'm losing it over.