Why BYU fans apostatized from the LDS Church remain BYU fans

[SeattleUte]

I've seen many Mormons, including a lot of BYU fans, leave the LDS Church. But I've never seen one change his or her sports affiliation. It's indestructible. I doubt electroshock therapy would work. And being a BYU fan is not easy.

Reza Aslan believes religion is all about identity. We all crave and need identity. It's enormously if not all-important to us. Various things make up our identity, and for many people, religion is part of it in varying degrees--sometimes it swallows up all the other factors, as with Islamic radicals and some LDS. I think Aslan is right. Once we lose religion, there are the well-known replacements, or, we lose religion in part or wholly because of those. Partisanship in spectator sports is all about identity. This feature is especially important in college sports, because of the formative experiences there, and we put this college on our resumes and CVs; we can't part with it if we are to remain viable in the secular world. Also, our society is governed by the scientific method, science, and education is therefore all-important--this is the ethos which is inexorably annihilating religion. As a result, BYU sports fan identity is a lot more durable than LDS Church membership.

Of all BYU fans, I love and embrace my apostate brothers and sisters the most. They show us that loving your college sports team is essentially an immutable characteristic.

[imanihonjin]

I have a brother who came out shortly after graduating from BYU. Our family has many deep ties BYU from an educational standpoint and a very deep connection to BYU's athletic department. We grew up going to family reunions singing the Cougar Fight Song, attending every nearly every football and basketball game and many other sporting events. It is in our blood. Since coming out my brother no longer wants anything to do with the church and that includes BYU. He is now a Ute fan and it makes me sick.

[SeattleUte]

He is now a Ute fan and it makes me sick.

That you are most upset by this is telling (unless you yourself are an apostate; I don't know the answer to that).

[Bo Diddley]

I've seen many Mormons, including a lot of BYU fans, leave the LDS Church. But I've never seen one change his or her sports affiliation. It's indestructible. I doubt electroshock therapy would work. And being a BYU fan is not easy.

Reza Aslan believes religion is all about identity. We all crave and need identity. It's enormously if not all-important to us. Various things make up our identity, and for many people, religion is part of it in varying degrees--sometimes it swallows up all the other factors, as with Islamic radicals and some LDS. I think Aslan is right. Once we lose religion, there are the well-known replacements, or, we lose religion in part or wholly because of those. Partisanship in spectator sports is all about identity. This feature is especially important in college sports, because of the formative experiences there, and we put this college on our resumes and CVs; we can't part with it if we are to remain viable in the secular world. Also, our society is governed by the scientific method, science, and education is therefore all-important--this is the ethos which is inexorably annihilating religion. As a result, BYU sports fan identity is a lot more durable than LDS Church membership.

Of all BYU fans, I love and embrace my apostate brothers and sisters the most. They show us that loving your college sports team is essentially an immutable characteristic.

That's a thought provoking theory for me. At first glance, I'm not convinced that I fit this. I'm actually quite self conscious whenever I post anything about the military or law enforcement on here, because I don't want people to think that's how I relate to the world. In such cases, I hope to be able to add a perspective, but that's not what I am. Maybe for me it's all about having a balanced identity, but I probably need to think about this a lot more before I'm convinced.

What kind of source material could you point me to? It's actually an interesting topic to me.

[imanihonjin]

That you are most upset by this is telling (unless you yourself are an apostate; I don't know the answer to that).

I'm curious as to what it is telling you. I am not an apostate but I am not a true believer either.

[creekster]

We have discussed this notion in mnay contexts in the past. The power of the tribe is great.

[SeattleUte]

That's a thought provoking theory for me. At first glance, I'm not convinced that I fit this. I'm actually quite self conscious whenever I post anything about the military or law enforcement on here, because I don't want people to think that's how I relate to the world. In such cases, I hope to be able to add a perspective, but that's not what I am. Maybe for me it's all about having a balanced identity, but I probably need to think about this a lot more before I'm convinced.

What kind of source material could you point me to? It's actually an interesting topic to me.

Have you read Aslan's book Zealot? He also gives a terrific lecture. He talks a lot about his journey from atheist to fundamentalist Christianity to Islam, and why. He's my favorite prog whatever, and he's an admirable combatant against Richard Dawkins whatever your faith or lack thereof.

[SeattleUte]

That's a thought provoking theory for me. At first glance, I'm not convinced that I fit this. I'm actually quite self conscious whenever I post anything about the military or law enforcement on here, because I don't want people to think that's how I relate to the world. In such cases, I hope to be able to add a perspective, but that's not what I am. Maybe for me it's all about having a balanced identity, but I probably need to think about this a lot more before I'm convinced.

What kind of source material could you point me to? It's actually an interesting topic to me.

I bet if you thought about it you'd realize you've got an identity that means a lot to you. You just now revealed some of it. Maybe your neutrality toward military and law enforcement with respect to your identity is part of it.

[creekster]

Have you read Aslan's book Zealot? He also gives a terrific lecture. He talks a lot about his journey from atheist to fundamentalist Christianity to Islam, and why. He's my favorite prog whatever, and he's an admirable combatant against Richard Dawkins whatever your faith or lack thereof.

In my mind calling him a muslim or a christian is like calling Thomas Jefferson a Christian. It's true but it probably doesn't mean the same thing to him that it means to you.

[SeattleUte]

In my mind calling him a muslim or a christian is like calling Thomas Jefferson a Christian. It's true but it probably doesn't mean the same thing to him that it means to you.

Yes, except Aslan doesn't own slaves or put his own children in chains.

[creekster]

Yes, except Aslan doesn't own slaves or put his own children in chains.

True (probably). And that is relevant to my point exactly how?

[Bo Diddley]

Have you read Aslan's book Zealot? He also gives a terrific lecture. He talks a lot about his journey from atheist to fundamentalist Christianity to Islam, and why. He's my favorite prog whatever, and he's an admirable combatant against Richard Dawkins whatever your faith or lack thereof.

Seems like I've heard someone recommend this before, whether it was on here, or at work.

I don't think neutrality is the right word for it. I think I have a distaste for labels. I don't wan't someone to limit my identity and make assumptions about me.

[Pelado]

Seems like I've heard someone recommend this before, whether it was on here, or at work.

I don't think neutrality is the right word for it. I think I have a distaste for labels. I don't wan't someone to limit my identity and make assumptions about me.

You must be one of those aspirational types. I've heard about guys like you.

[SeattleUte]

True (probably). And that is relevant to my point exactly how?

It's just a comment on Christian morality, even Jefferson's kind.

[creekster]

It's just a comment on Christian morality, even Jefferson's kind.

IOW irrelevant. And, as opposed to islamic? or to your religion of kindness?