Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

[Jeff Lebowski]

Doesn't look like it will be enough to satisfy the protesters (IMO).

Didn’t the letter say there is more to come?

[Pelado]

Didn’t the letter say there is more to come?

Reminiscent of the old "More to Come" graphics they would show between commercials near the end of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Basically, it meant that they still needed to run the ending credits and wanted you to wait for it through the end of the extended commercial break. The Honor Code Office's MtC may have similar worth.

tonight-show-more-to-come-cowboy.jpg

[falafel]

Didn’t the letter say there is more to come?

Says they will continue to review and refine their policies. Hopefully that review brings some more positive changes.

[swampfrog]

BYU announces changes to Honor Code Office following student criticism

Not having experience with the HCO, the biggest change I see is this:

Students who have been called into the office will also be told the name of the person who reported the violation, according to Utt’s letter. That excludes “situations where it is a matter of safety to a member of our campus community,” he said.

At first glance, that seems like in itself would cut very significantly into the number of reports. I think the effect of that change could easily be underestimated. The social consequences of reporting someone is that the person being reported has an avenue of vengeance through social media--and everything that follows from such.

[Bo Diddley]

At first glance, that seems like in itself would cut very significantly into the number of reports. I think the effect of that change could easily be underestimated. The social consequences of reporting someone is that the person being reported has an avenue of vengeance through social media--and everything that follows from such.

Snitches get stitches!

[Jeff Lebowski]

Says they will continue to review and refine their policies. Hopefully that review brings some more positive changes.

https://twitter.com/byu/status/1128389099516153861?s=21

[Sleeping in EQ]

At first glance, that seems like in itself would cut very significantly into the number of reports. I think the effect of that change could easily be underestimated. The social consequences of reporting someone is that the person being reported has an avenue of vengeance through social media--and everything that follows from such.

The snitch aspects go back to Wilkinson, and their fruit is bad. Hopefully the announced changes are just good first steps.

[Solon]

The snitch aspects go back to Wilkinson, and their fruit is bad. Hopefully the announced changes are just good first steps.

So, lemme get this straight.
Students are now told on their first contact with the Honor Code Office what they're being contacted about. So, before, students could be called in and not told why?
Do I have that right?

Sounds like that Kafka story about the trial.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So, lemme get this straight.
Students are now told on their first contact with the Honor Code Office what they're being contacted about. So, before, students could be called in and not told why?
Do I have that right?

Sounds like that Kafka story about the trial.

Like when the cops stop you

“Do you know why I pulled you over?”

[Sleeping in EQ]

So, lemme get this straight.
Students are now told on their first contact with the Honor Code Office what they're being contacted about. So, before, students could be called in and not told why?
Do I have that right?

Sounds like that Kafka story about the trial.

Yes.

I would guess that this approach contributed to some people confessing to things of which the HCO had been previously unaware.

I think the approach was wrong from the beginning, and good riddance to it.

Now if we can go and get Rexburg to partake.

[swampfrog]

The snitch aspects go back to Wilkinson, and their fruit is bad. Hopefully the announced changes are just good first steps.

In case I wasn't clear, the drastic reduction in the likely number of reports is a positive. Intended to emphasize the this rule change just by itself should take care of a lot of unnecessary drama and stupidity. Wilkinson was likely some part product of his times, but many remnants of his legacy are long overdue to be withdrawn from current policy.

There likely will be gray areas where the "protection" clause could be tricky to navigate in individual cases.

[swampfrog]

Now if we can go and get Rexburg to partake.

Absolutely. My daughter is attending Spring semester right now. The two schools would be better off implementing identical policies with regard to conduct and dress code.

[Sleeping in EQ]

In case I wasn't clear, the drastic reduction in the likely number of reports is a positive. Intended to emphasize the this rule change just by itself should take care of a lot of unnecessary drama and stupidity. Wilkinson was likely some part product of his times, but many remnants of his legacy are long overdue to be withdrawn from current policy.

There likely will be gray areas where the "protection" clause could be tricky to navigate in individual cases.

We are very much in agreement.

[Green Monstah]

I like the changes. When added to other recent changes (i.e. if a student is working with a bishop, the HC doesn't need to be involved in the process), I think this serves the students well, even though they're just procedural in nature. The student will know who reported them, why they're being reported, and the process that will be followed up front.

The biggest hurdle the HCO has now is reputational. If they can change their reputation to one where they're trusted (tough hurdle), it will serve the students and the University well. I honestly think they have the student's best interests at heart, even if it doesn't feel that way to the student.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I like the changes. When added to other recent changes (i.e. if a student is working with a bishop, the HC doesn't need to be involved in the process), I think this serves the students well, even though they're just procedural in nature. The student will know who reported them, why they're being reported, and the process that will be followed up front.

The biggest hurdle the HCO has now is reputational. If they can change their reputation to one where they're trusted (tough hurdle), it will serve the students and the University well. I honestly think they have the student's best interests at heart, even if it doesn't feel that way to the student.

How dare you be so reasonable about this?