Simon Magus and Needing a Temple Recommend to Perform Ordinances

[Clark Addison]

You need to get out of the South, wuap. That is messed up.

If by "South", you mean "South Carolina", totally agree.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Have you any money?

[wuapinmon]

Sounds like you've made up your mind. So are you here to vent or to proselytize?

Several times in my life post-CUF, I have come here with a strong opinion and have had someone say something that made me change my thinking on the matter. I am not so arrogant as to think I have it all figured out, so I bring it to the only intellectual group of LDS people I know to see what you say.

Regarding your use of 'proselytize' instead of 'proselyte,' I had a dispute with my dissertation director (a Brazilian with flawless English) over which verb was correct to use in my dissertation. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Oxford has the right way of saying stuff. So, you can go back to saying it the LDS way, instead of how they tried to make you say it in college.

proselyte, v.

1. Now chiefly U.S.
a. trans. To make, or seek to make, a proselyte of; to convert, or attempt to convert, from one opinion, religion, party, etc., to another; to proselytize.

b. intr. To make, or seek to make, proselytes or religious converts; to proselytize.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Wuap, here is my advice: If you are truly at the end of your rope, why not have a sit-down with the bishop and kindly and humbly share your concerns? Try to do it in such a way that you don't put him immediately in defensive mode. "Hey bishop, I respect you and I love the ward and the church, but here are some issues that I am really struggling with." Don't expect him to immediately morph into the ideal leader, but I bet if it were done in the right spirit it would do a lot of good. What do you have to lose at this point?

[MartyFunkhouser]

Wuap, here is my advice: If you are truly at the end of your rope, why not have a sit-down with the bishop and kindly and humbly share your concerns? Try to do it in such a way that you don't put him immediately in defensive mode. "Hey bishop, I respect you and I love the ward and the church, but here are some issues that I am really struggling with." Don't expect him to immediately morph into the ideal leader, but I bet if it were done in the right spirit it would do a lot of good. What do you have to lose at this point?

That's a great approach with some leaders. It would be a horrible approach with others. The wonderful world of leadership roulette.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's a great approach with some leaders. It would be a horrible approach with others. The wonderful world of leadership roulette.

Under what condition would that be a horrible approach?

And while we are at it, can I just say how much I dislike bitching about leadership roulette? Does anyone honestly expect perfect uniformity in human beings? Is there any organization on earth that enjoys perfect consistency? This is part of life. Get used to it.

[wuapinmon]

Wuap, here is my advice: If you are truly at the end of your rope, why not have a sit-down with the bishop and kindly and humbly share your concerns? Try to do it in such a way that you don't put him immediately in defensive mode. "Hey bishop, I respect you and I love the ward and the church, but here are some issues that I am really struggling with." Don't expect him to immediately morph into the ideal leader, but I bet if it were done in the right spirit it would do a lot of good. What do you have to lose at this point?

Well, I can try it, but I fear it'll lead to a court. I get called the "learnèd man" about once a month at church. He already thinks I'm a heretic for telling him to not ask my children questions about their sexuality beyond "Do you keep the Law of Chastity?" This is the third bishop I've had here. The first one was awful, the middle one was normal, and this one is hardliner. I need to think about how I would do this. I don't want to get exed, mostly to spare my wife and kids the social ramifications of something like that, especially my wife with her family. If I get into a private interview with my bishop where I think he's wrong, I could quickly paint myself into a corner.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well, I can try it, but I fear it'll lead to a court. I get called the "learnèd man" about once a month at church. He already thinks I'm a heretic for telling him to not ask my children questions about their sexuality beyond "Do you keep the Law of Chastity?" This is the third bishop I've had here. The first one was awful, the middle one was normal, and this one is hardliner. I need to think about how I would do this. I don't want to get exed, mostly to spare my wife and kids the social ramifications of something like that, especially my wife with her family. If I get into a private interview with my bishop where I think he's wrong, I could quickly paint myself into a corner.

You would get exed for telling the bishop you don't like being "ordered" to home teach? Really?

[smokymountainrain]

Well, I can try it, but I fear it'll lead to a court. I get called the "learnèd man" about once a month at church. He already thinks I'm a heretic for telling him to not ask my children questions about their sexuality beyond "Do you keep the Law of Chastity?" This is the third bishop I've had here. The first one was awful, the middle one was normal, and this one is hardliner. I need to think about how I would do this. I don't want to get exed, mostly to spare my wife and kids the social ramifications of something like that, especially my wife with her family. If I get into a private interview with my bishop where I think he's wrong, I could quickly paint myself into a corner.

wuap, sometimes you can be a real drama queen. if you do as JL suggested, you're not going to get exed. I'll pay you $100 if you even get disfellowshipped.

[creekster]

wuap, sometimes you can be a real drama queen. if you do as JL suggested, you're not going to get exed. I'll pay you $100 if you even get disfellowshipped.

And so the money for ordinances idea comes half circle.

Wuap I think it's pretty clear I don't agree with elbowski just "because" but I will say his advice here is very good. I can't imagine there being a downside especially given how much better you'll likely feel for having worked to reasonably voice your concerns.

[Jeff Lebowski]

And so the money for ordinances idea comes half circle.

OK, that was funny.

[cougjunkie]

You guys really worry about some stupid shit, I am blown away by what you choose to be offended by. This is why you should build your testimony of the church on the teachings of Christ as opposed to the counsel given by the church leaders. Let that counsel strengthen and reaffirm your testimony, but at the end of the day it is Christs church he is the one who was perfect. The apostles and other church leaders are men that make mistakes just like everyone else.

Have a conversation with your father in heaven about this, and come to conclusion through him and the Holy Ghost. I promise everything else will fall in to place and you can quit worrying about trivial things. Unless of course you are looking for a reason to leave, and you can use this as your out.

[Pelado]

Well, I can try it, but I fear it'll lead to a court. I get called the "learnèd man" about once a month at church. He already thinks I'm a heretic for telling him to not ask my children questions about their sexuality beyond "Do you keep the Law of Chastity?" This is the third bishop I've had here. The first one was awful, the middle one was normal, and this one is hardliner. I need to think about how I would do this. I don't want to get exed, mostly to spare my wife and kids the social ramifications of something like that, especially my wife with her family. If I get into a private interview with my bishop where I think he's wrong, I could quickly paint myself into a corner.

Does anyone really paint their flooring?

[creekster]

Does anyone really paint their flooring?

Garage.

[Moliere]

I like the name "elbowski". I hope that sticks...maybe on the Mexican version of CS.

Talk to your bishop, Wuap. You might find he's actually a reasonable guy who just got caught up in some recent religious fervor. If he's not reasonable, then you might get called to a court. But your bishops opinion won't matter as much at that point.