Apostle Pick'em Contest

[Soccermom]

I don't know much about any of the new apostles, but I'm already loving Sister Renlund. http://www.mormonwomen.com/2010/05/1...-call-me-ruth/

[Non Sequitur]

The Church is not a worldwide Church but rather a Utah-Idaho church with branch offices in other countries. It pays only lip service to being a worldwide church. Leadership simply chooses safe choices of people known to them.

It was pointed out how despite many years of the Church being in Polynesia, Latin America, Brazil and Australia, three white guys from Utah, Idaho is the best they can come up with? It seems as if the upper Church leadership is more intent on keeping members in line than on expanding its outreach. Nobody could have selected a more bland group to add to the already bland group. Uchtdorf is the sole outlier.

Yes I hear the defenders claim that middle aged white men from Utah can have a myriad of experiences and expertise which will be breathtakingly innovative and refreshing. Nonetheless, the symbol the non-Utah, non-Idaho arm of the Church is that, nobody but Utah based leaders are worthy or wanted.

It's about revenue. Tithing sums from Europe, South America and Asia are insignificant. Tithing from Utah County, alone, likely outstrips that from all of Europe.

[New Mexican Disaster]

There's something funny about white businessmen and lawyers from the intermountain west whining about only white businessmen and lawyers from the intermountain west being called to the quorum of the twelve.

What is it that's funny about that?

[All-American]

It's about revenue. Tithing sums from Europe, South America and Asia are insignificant. Tithing from Utah County, alone, likely outstrips that from all of Europe.

Or it may show the brethren are less concerned about growth in Africa than about attrition in Utah. Or it may show what the demographics of the church were like forty or more years ago. Or anything else.

[Harry Tic]

I no longer quite get what the obsession is with choosing an apostle from Africa or Latin America (I used to, but don't anymore). First, because the primary responsibilities for a member of the Q12 are administrative and mostly invisible to the general public, two appearances per year on tv notwithstanding. What is needed are adept, reliable administrators with a strong testimony. The cosmetic aspects of the selection are secondary to the practical aspects of it. Second, even if an African or Latin American were chosen, what do guilt-plagued, white, liberal-leaning members get from it? A bit of smug self-satisfaction about how progressive the church is becoming. The fact is, even if a native African, Asian, or Latin American would be chosen, odds are that they would have already internalized church culture so thoroughly that they wouldn't differ materially from Utah-raised GAs. Maybe skin of a slightly different hue, that's about it.

In fact, if my experience with church leaders from Latin America is at all indicative, they can often exceed the gringos in their zeal for bureaucracy and conservative orthodoxy. There is, and can be, only one Silver Fox. Sorry, progmos.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I hate to admit it, but this is pretty funny.

[byu71]

I hate to admit it, but this is pretty funny.

Yea, I have already seen it about 6 times via texts and e-mails.

[Topper]

Yea, I have already seen it about 6 times via texts and e-mails.

You need to get some new friends.

[byu71]

You need to get some new friends.

5 of them are the buddies I play golf with. That is the as bad as the trash talk gets. I knew years ago to not get into trash talking with my Ute friends because they would eventually have the heavier weapons.

[Goatnapper'96]

I no longer quite get what the obsession is with choosing an apostle from Africa or Latin America (I used to, but don't anymore). First, because the primary responsibilities for a member of the Q12 are administrative and mostly invisible to the general public, two appearances per year on tv notwithstanding. What is needed are adept, reliable administrators with a strong testimony. The cosmetic aspects of the selection are secondary to the practical aspects of it. Second, even if an African or Latin American were chosen, what do guilt-plagued, white, liberal-leaning members get from it? A bit of smug self-satisfaction about how progressive the church is becoming. The fact is, even if a native African, Asian, or Latin American would be chosen, odds are that they would have already internalized church culture so thoroughly that they wouldn't differ materially from Utah-raised GAs. Maybe skin of a slightly different hue, that's about it.

In fact, if my experience with church leaders from Latin America is at all indicative, they can often exceed the gringos in their zeal for bureaucracy and conservative orthodoxy. There is, and can be, only one Silver Fox. Sorry, progmos.

I am with you. As I read the stringpulling I thought to myself: Be careful what you wish for. My guess is that nothing would grate on the nerves of the ProgMo/stringpulling crowd more than an Apostle from some 3rd world country behaving like a white upper middle class mormon from the East SL Bench. Same lip smacking and voice intonation developed over years of trying to be like the leaders of the Mormon Church he had watched and tried to imitate.

In fact, I have liked Renlund since he came to my Stake Conference a few years ago. I think I sung his praises on this venue or perhaps it was Mikey's. In any case the stringpullers will learn they would much rather have had Renlund than Acosta.

But the one thing I do like about the Church is they don't really want to make stringpullers work very hard.

[TripletDaddy]

The fact is, even if a native African, Asian, or Latin American would be chosen, odds are that they would have already internalized church culture so thoroughly that they wouldn't differ materially from Utah-raised GAs. Maybe skin of a slightly different hue, that's about it.

Was just making a similar point this weekend to some friends of mine. They are all pretty similar, not much difference in what they are going to say or do.

[Goatnapper'96]

I don't know much about any of the new apostles, but I'm already loving Sister Renlund. http://www.mormonwomen.com/2010/05/1...-call-me-ruth/

He told some story about visiting Adam-Ahndi-Ahman (or however it is spelled) on a summer trip. His wife leans over to him and whispers in his ear: "now I know why they were nekkid, cuz it is so hot here!" Some tourists asked them about A-a-A and whether Mormons believed it was the Garden of Eden. His wife says: "of course we do and now my husband will explain why!" as she winked at him. He commented about it being a bit of a weird belief and swung the answer to temples and eternal families.

Personally, I think his life's experiences make him pretty damn diverse for a successful mormon leader. A wife with a successful legal career and only one child? I just think the Renlunds need to go with Sister "Southern Belle" Marriott to her family dinners down in NOLA and have Sister Renlund open a can of Yankee whoopass on Sister Marriott's skeptical family members!

[chrisrenrut]

I hate to admit it, but this is pretty funny.

Credit Snowcat in this one. Posted just minutes after the announcement:

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...=1#post1216058

[byu71]

I don't know much about any of the new apostles, but I'm already loving Sister Renlund. http://www.mormonwomen.com/2010/05/1...-call-me-ruth/

Pretty dang impressive Lady. I love the diversity we have in the church.

[Flystripper]

Some new apostles, huh? cool. I hope they provide some good talks for you guys to listen to twice a year.