Those wacky scientologists

[Katy Lied]

I've been researching Scientology pretty heavily lately. It is a fascinating religion, and often vaguely compared to Mormonism, as these are both modern religions founded in the US that have branched out worldwide. With respect to different aspects of belief and culture, this thread is a more-or-less respectful discussion of both religions.

[Katy Lied]

Cult

Scientologist have oft asked why people consider scientology a cult, while the LDS folk get a pass as a "Church." Is it just a matter of age? Will Scientology be considered a church in another 100 years?

I think that Mormonism should more accurately be called a "Christian Cult." It is a lesser known, newer organization that worships Christ and God the Father. At the center of all mormon doctrine is an acknowledgement of the divinity of God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. I'm proud to be a member of a Christian cult; use this with your friends who brandish the word "cult" as if it were an insult.

Scientologists view Jesus Christ as a good religious teacher and no more. L Ron Hubbard views Christ as the equivalent of an OT1 (Operating Thetan) which is a level of enlightenment a shade above the status of "clear" (more on clear later). There are a lot of human clears and OTs, and OT levels go up to 12 (although the highest OT level achieved in the current church is OT8). So Christ is at the lowest level of enlightenment, equal to Buddha, Mohammed, and other historical religious figures.

I think that Mormons get an easier leap into mainstream, as we share a belief familiar to the Judeo-Christian roots of our country. Scientologist don't have that commonality, so get rejected as a "cult" in the pejorative sense.

[Katy Lied]

Founder

Joseph Smith was gregarious, warm, charismatic, compelling, had problems with debts, and lied about some of the more controversial practices of his Church. He was not well educated, except by life. He was a bigamist. He had an adversarial relationship with the press outside of his control. He founded a church that worships God and Jesus Christ. This church has grown huge, in terms of assets and members.

L Ron Hubbard was gregarious, warm, charismatic, compelling, had problems with debts, and lied about some of the more controversial practices of his Church. He was not well educated, except by life. He was a bigamist. He had an adversarial relationship with the press outside of his control. He founded a church that worships L Ron Hubbard. This church has grown huge, in terms of assets and claimed members.

[Indy Coug]

Since my ignorance of Scientology is total, what is a good high-level description of the faith? Is it a new-age Buddhism where adherents are following the path charted by L Ron Hubbard in their search of total enlightenment?

[Katy Lied]

Atonement

Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of the world, and atoned for all the sins of mankind. Through this atonement, Christ paid for each person's sins, and this is a gift available to everyone of every country and religion. The atonement is a gift whether one believes in it or not, and is given not in exchange for a certain religious membership, or by going through certain rituals, or by declaring an acceptance of any belief. It is given to everyone.


Scientologists do not believe in an atonement by someone other than the self. No one but the individual can atone for his own sins, and to think otherwise is to keep mankind in bondage (to the atoning one). Each individual must atone for his own sins through the process of auditing, a counseling session where the auditee sifts through the sources of all of the sins of their lifetime, examines each instance, and clears each obstruction one at a time. The way to perfecting the planet is to convert each person to scientology so that each person can remove their own negative acts.

[Katy Lied]

Since my ignorance of Scientology is total, what is a good high-level description of the faith? Is it a new-age Buddhism where adherents are following the path charted by L Ron Hubbard in their search of total enlightenment?

Well, that is a good one-sentence description (minus the reference to Buddhism). But Scientology is much richer than this simple description.

Complexity

Mormonism is a complex religion with doctrine additional to a basic Christian belief. This additional doctrine involves additional books, ordinances, and live prophets receiving and interpreting revelation from God. The higher ordinances of the church require a temple recommend. One can be involved in the Church for many years without learning some of the more esoteric practices of the religion.

Scientology is a complex religion. The doctrine involves books, scriptures, ordinances, and L Ron Hubbard issuing commands, advices, and foundational beliefs via books, tapes, telexes and messengers. The higher levels of enlightenment of the church require passing all previous levels. One can be involved in the Church for many years without learning some of the more esoteric practices of the religion.

[Katy Lied]

Children

Old souls in new bodies. Scientologist believe that everyone is an eternal spirit reincarnated into physical bodies over and over again. Children have souls that are billions of years old, and young children experience some disconcertment and bewilderment at the birthing process, but by age 12 or 13 they can be treated as adults. Children as young as 8 have signed Billion-year contracts to enter into the Scientology ministry, and at the age of 13 can be working very long hours for the Church. (At age 12, Scientologist Laura Dieckman signed her Billion year contract with Sea Org, the Scientology ministry, and began working 8:30am to 10:30 pm, 7 days a week, with about 3 days off per year.) At 13, Laura switched to the adult work schedule: 8:30am to 12:30am, seven days a week, 112 hours a week. Formal schooling is abandoned, although they must get some kind of informal education because many Sea Org members take the GED and pass it promptly at 18 or so.

Mormons don't believe in reincarnation on Earth, and every child is an old soul in a new body for a one-time physical experience. Natural life on earth is a place of great learning, and an emphasis is made on learning, as this is the first (and only) go round in an early existence.

[Katy Lied]

Family Relationships

Scientologist believe that due to reincarnation, family relationships in this lifetime are serendipitous and haphazard. The son you have in this lifetime may have been your grandfather 30 lifetimes ago, or your childhood girlfriend 50 lifetimes ago. Family relationships are downplayed, and relationships held dear according to cultural norms are portrayed as simply GE, or genetic entities. Your mother is simply the genetic entity that facilitates your rebirth into your reincarnated body. Family relationships are downplayed, and it is common for husbands and wives to be sent on missions in different parts of the world. Families in Sea Org are routinely separated, and children as young as 6 or 8 see their parents for 3 hours on Saturday. Older teens see their parents maybe once a month, and adult families are separated and allowed to see each other maybe once per year. Scientolody's "Disconnection Policy" (Shunning; more later) relies on this de-emphasis on family bonds; it is not seen as a crime to separate families.

Few things are more precious to Mormons than their family relationships. They emphasize family, even at the expense of Church. For example, a minor wanting to join the LDS church cannot be baptized against the wishes of his parents. Participation in Church activities can be discouraged if it brings disharmony to the home. Parents (a major exception being Church leaders, who have a heavy meeting, counseling, and training load) are encouraged to spend time with their families. There is a fundamental faith in the concept of getting to heaven and to eternity along with your family.

[frank ryan]

Scientology is rooted in the occult differently and maybe more so, than Mormonism is. Hubbard cribbed a lot of practices from Jack Parsons and Crowley.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Scientology is rooted in the occult differently and maybe more so, than Mormonism is. Hubbard cribbed a lot of practices from Jack Parsons and Crowley.

I knew there was a reason the last two season of Downton have sucked. Stupid Scientology.

[Crockett]

Scientology is rooted in the occult differently and maybe more so, than Mormonism is. Hubbard cribbed a lot of practices from Jack Parsons and Crowley.

Are you referring to Aleister Crowley? That was one nasty dude.

[Northwestcoug]

Yeah, his life did seem tragic with the thrill of it all. He did fool all the people with magic. And he did wait on Satan's door.
:rockon1:

[Commando]

What about celebrities? I know Beck and Tom Cruise are Scientologists for example, but what of their Mormon counterparts? Gladys Knight and Will Butler are well-known, as well as the lead singer of the Used and a porn star that appeared on 20/20.

[TripletDaddy]

Yeah, his life did seem tragic with the thrill of it all. He did fool all the people with magic. And he did wait on Satan's door.
:rockon1:

:rockon2:

[Northwestcoug]

:rockon2:

So what's considered cooler: Ozzy's over-the-top dedicatory song or the Beatles' subtle homage?