What is apostasy anyway?

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  • SeattleUte
    Faith crisis consultant
    • Nov 2008
    • 20837

    #1

    What is apostasy anyway?

    Here's a conundrum: how can anyone be charged with apostasy if they deny they are apostate? Isn't that a lot like charging someone with atheism who asserts he believes in God?

    Experience a community where your doubts and questions are valued and understood. We are dedicated to providing a place to explore your faith, share your experiences, and find the support you need during your faith journey. Details for Sunday, Response to Apostasy Charge, and Concerns about the Disciplinary Council
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift
  • TripletDaddy
    sweet triple
    • Nov 2008
    • 58186

    #2
    "Apostate" can describe behavior as well as (lack of) belief. So one can be charged with being apostate per that person's behavior even while that person is professing a continued belief. In fact, aren't most Church courts the result of behavior?

    Problem solved.
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

    sigpic

    Comment

    • Northwestcoug
      Cocked and Loaded
      • May 2011
      • 18003

      #3
      I'm sure JL is going to love this thread...
      "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
      "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
      - SeattleUte

      Comment

      • Jeff Lebowski
        Corporate lackey for Jesus
        • Nov 2008
        • 69669

        #4
        Good old JD. I got a real kick out of this line:

        Even though these issues are very charged, I ask that your comments be respectful (on all sides).
        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

        Comment

        • Jeff Lebowski
          Corporate lackey for Jesus
          • Nov 2008
          • 69669

          #5
          Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
          I'm sure JL is going to love this thread...
          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

          Comment

          • SeattleUte
            Faith crisis consultant
            • Nov 2008
            • 20837

            #6
            Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Good old JD. I got a real kick out of this line:
            I saw you are his facebook friend. I tried to friend him but it said he didn't want anymore friends, he has enough.
            When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

            --Jonathan Swift

            Comment

            • SeattleUte
              Faith crisis consultant
              • Nov 2008
              • 20837

              #7
              Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
              "Apostate" can describe behavior as well as (lack of) belief. So one can be charged with being apostate per that person's behavior even while that person is professing a continued belief. In fact, aren't most Church courts the result of behavior?

              Problem solved.
              Behavior? Per MW dictionary: Apostate: "a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle." Renounce: "formally declare one's abandonment of (a claim, right, or possession)." He has declared that he denies he renounces. He's not an apostate. (This would be fun to defend. Of course I'd lose the trial.)
              When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

              --Jonathan Swift

              Comment

              • Northwestcoug
                Cocked and Loaded
                • May 2011
                • 18003

                #8
                Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                Another thread about John Dehlin.
                "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                - SeattleUte

                Comment

                • Jeff Lebowski
                  Corporate lackey for Jesus
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 69669

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
                  Another thread about John Dehlin.
                  Good point. We should merge them.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment

                  • SeattleUte
                    Faith crisis consultant
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 20837

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    Good point. We should merge them.
                    Hold it! This subject matter is a lot more interesting than John Dehlin per se, and it's stand alone. "Apostate" is such an ughy term in Mormonism (probably by design).
                    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                    --Jonathan Swift

                    Comment

                    • Jeff Lebowski
                      Corporate lackey for Jesus
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 69669

                      #11
                      Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                      I saw you are his facebook friend. I tried to friend him but it said he didn't want anymore friends, he has enough.
                      You are in luck! I unfriended him recently. Tell him you want to take my old spot.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment

                      • DrumNFeather
                        Invisible Swordsman
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 8854

                        #12
                        A 12 page press release? Woof.
                        "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

                        Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

                        Comment

                        • PaloAltoCougar
                          Semper infra dignitatem
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 16934

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                          You are in luck! I unfriended him recently. Tell him you want to take my old spot.
                          I was going offer SU mine, but I haven't unfriended him yet. His incessant posts, that have become excessively self-pitying and self-aggrandizing (JD, not SU!), are clogging my news feed, delaying my access to the latest tests that promise to tell me which movie star, animal or tree I most closely resemble.

                          Comment

                          • Moliere
                            One man.....one pie
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 27869

                            #14
                            I like how JD just makes up quotes from the SP to show he is being punished for supporting OW and gay marriage. He even puts them in quotes and makes it look like that is exactly what the SP said. Seems pretty shady.

                            I still hope he just gets disfellowshipped.
                            "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                            Comment

                            • SeattleUte
                              Faith crisis consultant
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 20837

                              #15
                              You guys are bad friends. You were his friends until he was condemned to the gallows. Now you repudiate your friendship. cock-a-doodle-doo! cock-a-doodle-doo! cock-a-doodle-doo!
                              When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                              --Jonathan Swift

                              Comment

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