The Great and Terrible Day

**Katy Lied** · 06-06-2009, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by pellegrino View Post

Any help on this one? Why is it important to know the signs of the Second Coming?

Okay, this is a little panglossian for my taste, but here are some potential answers:

1. Signs point to the Second Coming and the inevitability of the triumph of good over evil, which can bring us hope and comfort. Lesson 48: “The Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord”, Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, 225

2. Looking for signs is an exercise in preparation, and through preparation we can be unafraid. Spencer V. Jones, “Messages from the Doctrine and Covenants: Finding Hope in the Second Coming,” Ensign, Jun 2005, 58–60

3. Signs can serve as a countdown timer, reminding us of the things we have promised Him we would do. Henry B. Eyring, “Hearts Bound Together,” Ensign, May 2005, 77

4. Signs serve as a caution and a reminder to prepare ourselves for the Second Coming. Chapter 41: Signs of the Second Coming,” Gospel Principles, 265

5. Signs, occurring as they do in history and also in modern-day, link the past and the present with the future, and indicate to us that just as He has lived in the past, He also lives now and will return again in the future. Chapter 41: Signs of the Second Coming,” Gospel Principles, 265

PS: I really hope someone asks about the Lord "hissing" when he calls his people together. 8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. Zechariah 10:8.

**All-American** · 06-06-2009, 05:55 PM

You should talk about Jonas.

**Jeff Lebowski** · 06-06-2009, 06:18 PM

We have discussed this before and I feel the same way, Pellegrino. I am far more likely to get hit by a truck tomorrow, so I will prepare for that. Furthermore, the interpretation of signs is so subjective that it seems meaningless. (to me anyway)

**pellegrino** · 06-06-2009, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post

Okay, this is a little panglossian for my taste, but here are some potential answers:

1. Signs point to the Second Coming and the inevitability of the triumph of good over evil, which can bring us hope and comfort. Lesson 48: “The Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord”, Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, 225

2. Looking for signs is an exercise in preparation, and through preparation we can be unafraid. Spencer V. Jones, “Messages from the Doctrine and Covenants: Finding Hope in the Second Coming,” Ensign, Jun 2005, 58–60

3. Signs can serve as a countdown timer, reminding us of the things we have promised Him we would do. Henry B. Eyring, “Hearts Bound Together,” Ensign, May 2005, 77

4. Signs serve as a caution and a reminder to prepare ourselves for the Second Coming. Chapter 41: Signs of the Second Coming,” Gospel Principles, 265

5. Signs, occurring as they do in history and also in modern-day, link the past and the present with the future, and indicate to us that just as He has lived in the past, He also lives now and will return again in the future. Chapter 41: Signs of the Second Coming,” Gospel Principles, 265

PS: I really hope someone asks about the Lord "hissing" when he calls his people together. 8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. Zechariah 10:8.

Katy,

Thanks for the thoughtful response. All of the reasons you posted are valid reasons for knowing and understanding, but I tend to agree with Lebowski. I'm going to ask the question tomorrow anyways and see what discussion it provokes. I particularly liked reason #3 that you gave, I have always liked Eyring and his approach to living life. I'd be interested in hearing what people have to say about holy hisses, but I don't think that's in the reading, so nobody will likely discuss it. I'll report back if it does come up.

All-American, other than procrastinating and not obeying the Lord's commandments, what does Jonah have to do with the End of Days?

**RobinFinderson** · 06-06-2009, 06:48 PM

Where I grew up it was pretty common for people of my parents generation (I'm 35) to teach people of my generation that Christ would probably return within our lifetime. Was this true in other places? Does it still happen, or was that part of the peculiar One True Church of the Nineteen Seventies?

**Gidget** · 06-06-2009, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by RobinFinderson View Post

Where I grew up it was pretty common for people of my parents generation (I'm 35) to teach people of my generation that Christ would probably return within our lifetime. Was this true in other places? Does it still happen, or was that part of the peculiar One True Church of the Nineteen Seventies?

Both my parents (who have been divorced for quite some time now) and some of their friends their age feel like it will happen in their or my lifetime. Like they insist upon it. It's annoying actually.

P.S. None of these people are LDS.

**pellegrino** · 06-06-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by RobinFinderson View Post

Where I grew up it was pretty common for people of my parents generation (I'm 35) to teach people of my generation that Christ would probably return within our lifetime. Was this true in other places? Does it still happen, or was that part of the peculiar One True Church of the Nineteen Seventies?

This was true in my case as well (I'm 34). As for whether or not it is still taught like that, well, the manual doesn't mention anything of it, but that doesn't mean that people don't feel that way. I'm sure that there are GD instructors and seminary teachers that still teach that, but that won't happen in my class tomorrow. I had one institute tell us that our generation would be responsible for the return of the Law of Consecration. I chuckled at that one.

I kind of think that the two generations immediately preceding ours felt that the 2nd coming would have come a lot earlier. I think they viewed the calamities of the two World Wars, the reestablishment of Israel as a nation and the loosening of morals during the 60s (even if it was just being more open about what was happening) as proof that the world was coming to an end.

I'm sure that there are many who still feel this way (my father for one) and there is a growing subset of people who view 2012 as a cataclysmic year which could be the fulfillment of the prophecies. It has something to do with the Mayan calender ending and since we all know that the Mayans were Nephites or enlightened Lamanites then their calender must be connected to the gospel and the End of Days. As you can see, I don't find the topic very compelling.

**Fiyero** · 06-06-2009, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post

PS: I really hope someone asks about the Lord "hissing" when he calls his people together. 8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. Zechariah 10:8.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible:

I will hiss for them (or shriek for them): I will call them with such a shrill, strong voice that they shall hear Me, and find that it is the voice of their redemption.

**RC Vikings** · 06-06-2009, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by pellegrino View Post

I'm sure that there are many who still feel this way (my father for one) and there is a growing subset of people who view 2012 as a cataclysmic year which could be the fulfillment of the prophecies. It has something to do with the Mayan calender ending and since we all know that the Mayans were Nephites or enlightened Lamanites then their calender must be connected to the gospel and the End of Days. As you can see, I don't find the topic very compelling.

**Surfah** · 06-06-2009, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Fiyero View Post

From Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible:

I will hiss for them (or shriek for them): I will call them with such a shrill, strong voice that they shall hear Me, and find that it is the voice of their redemption.

Dammit. I thought my gift of parseltongue would come in handy.

**SCcoug** · 06-06-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by pellegrino View Post

So I'm preparing tomorrow's GD lesson on the signs of the Second Coming and I can't come up with a decent answer for why someone should study and know (beyond just a casual knowledge) the signs, etc.

I'll be honest, this is one area of church scholarship that I've never found fascinating or even useful. I've always figured that if you were doing the best you can to live the gospel then it wouldn't matter if you recognized the signs of the times because you'd be ready to meet your maker regardless.

Any help on this one? Why is it important to know the signs of the Second Coming?

My wife and I did a hike today with her parents and on the way up her mom was reading the GD manual and I felt the same way you do. All the speculation is just not interesting. Even if you stick with scriptures on the topic you get a pretty vengeful picture of God smiting all the wicked. So in addition to the speculation about the signs and how Russia, Iran and Obama fit into it all you get to point fingers at all the wicked who will get burned. It is a topic that can get both useless and bizarre pretty fast.

As an aside didn't the Saints' attitude about the Second Coming (ie. all this land will be ours, the Lord will come back and give us your land ect.) contribute to their expulsion? I'd include the comment that it doesn't matter how many signs you know, scriptures you read, or church meetings you attend if you act like an ass or rather unChristlike you won't make it.

**pellegrino** · 06-06-2009, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post

nice, summed up my thoughts exactly.

**TripletDaddy** · 06-06-2009, 09:22 PM

Is this really tomorrow's lesson topic? I think I will make a Bingo card with phrases and mark them off as the phrases are used in class:

1. Wars and rumors of wars (reference to terrorism, Iraq.....in the 80s, the proof was Russia and the Cold War, but this one adapts for each generation)
2. People will call good evil and evil good (references to homosexuality and Prop 8)
3. Temples to dot the Earth
4. Persecution of the Saints (reference to someone at work that said something mean about Mormons)
5. Someone will make reference to the "thief in the night" metaphor for the timing of the Second Coming

Bonus if someone mentions that 2 prophets have to lay dead in the street in Jerusalem. Extra bonus if someone points out that the "prophets" could be missionaries or regular members of the Church.

I wish we had modern day interpretations for the signs of the Second Coming. Personally, rivers flowing red with blood and clouds blotting out the sky leave me cold. I am looking for more banal indicia that the end is nigh:

1. Ward does 100% home teaching one month
2. Relief Society solves its own problems instead of asking everyone else to help them set up chairs, unlock buildings, etc.
3. Newly married BYU couple moves into the ward, moves their own furniture and belongings
4. PEC ends on time
5. At ward council, someone (ANYONE) passes up the chance to "update" everyone else about their auxiliary, admitting the fact that there is nothing important to discuss. (I'm talking to you, wannabes like Emergency Prep coordinator, Primary counselor, or Sunday School President...)
6. 4 straight weeks of non-stale Sacrament bread
7. Priesthood "opening" exercises take less than 10 minutes
8. Aaronic priesthood does not serve the Sacrament in a reverent manner, Bishop chastises them in the meeting
9. Make it through one Sacrament meeting without someone ending a talk in the name of "thy" Son....

**RobinFinderson** · 06-06-2009, 09:33 PM

Nice work DDD.