Dallin Oaks condemning the Renaissance, science, humanism and

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  • SeattleUte
    Faith crisis consultant
    • Nov 2008
    • 20837

    #1

    Dallin Oaks condemning the Renaissance, science, humanism and

    Today at BYU Dallin Oaks attacked the Renaissance, science, humanism and
    Supreme Court civil rights decisions.



    The way he uses his Supreme Court clerkship and professorship at the University of Chicago as badges while he spouts this sophistry is sickening. He was there with Earl Warren as the Supreme Court made the Bill of Rights' promise real. Oaks is a son of perdition.

    The LDS Church uses Oaks to make these speeches precisely because he's got that resume. Yes he knows Constitutional law. But what this boils down to is values; specifically, the Constutution's values. Those of us who disagree with Mr. Oaks, who feel strongly that he is preaching a benighted "gospel" that is at odds with the Constution's values, should not shrink from saying his values are wrong. Oaks' values are wrong. Henry Billings Brown, who wrote the opinion known as Plessey v. Ferguson, which for 58 years made it constitutional for states to put white and black children in separate schools, knew well the Constitution and cases interpreting it. (LDS leaders roundly condemned Brown v. Board of Education, the opinion written by Oaks' mentor Justice Warren, that overturned Plessy.) But most of us are now enlightened enough to regard Billings' values and Taney's values and LDS leaders' values in 1954 as benighted and not the values elucidated in the Bill of Rghts.

    The Supreme Court has read the Constitution to say that Americans have a fundamental right to marry. Is that what Oaks finds offensive about the Supreme Court decisions? Because gays and lesbians tell us that they can only form the kinds of close relationnships that make a happy and lasting marriage possible with people of the same sex and this is just the way they are, like skin color or gender or the sexual preference of heterosexuals like Mr. Oaks. What Oaks fears is that his LDS Church will continue to lose moral authority to secular institutions that protect our liberties like the Supreme Court, universities, etc. So, choose ye this day whom ye will serve, Oaks and the legacy of Justice Taney, or our current Supreme Court and the legacy of Justice Warren.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-08-2015, 09:24 AM.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift
  • MarkGrace
    Grooveshark dick tease
    • Dec 2008
    • 31546

    #2
    You just read that whole thing? Must be really bored.
    So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

    Comment

    • SeattleUte
      Faith crisis consultant
      • Nov 2008
      • 20837

      #3
      Originally posted by MarkGrace View Post
      You just read that whole thing? Must be really bored.
      Unlike Alec Baldwin's farewell letter, which I couldn't get past the first paragraph, it's not a difficult read. Took me less than 60 seconds.
      Last edited by SeattleUte; 02-25-2014, 10:40 PM.
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

      --Jonathan Swift

      Comment

      • Jeff Lebowski
        Corporate lackey for Jesus
        • Nov 2008
        • 69536

        #4
        Yikes. That is cringe-worthy.
        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

        Comment

        • Applejack
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2012
          • 3812

          #5
          Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
          Yikes. That is cringe-worthy.
          I used to really admire Oaks, but his religious-freedoms kick has soured me. He is very disingenuous when he talks about what (1) free exercise meant to the founders and (2) the tyranny of the court system.

          Comment

          • Topper
            Pre-Historic Man
            • Nov 2011
            • 11764

            #6
            Originally posted by Applejack View Post
            I used to really admire Oaks, but his religious-freedoms kick has soured me. He is very disingenuous when he talks about what (1) free exercise meant to the founders and (2) the tyranny of the court system.
            He is doing what he is told. Unfortunately, he is becoming this generation's BRM, although not nearly as malicious. Again like you, I had enjoyed him quite a bit until the hierarchy appointed him to be its top religious freedom speaker. He was the president when I attended BYU, and he seemed to support academic freedom at the time and promoted advancing the departments of BYU for academic success.
            "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

            Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

            Comment

            • Solon
              Lost in the flood
              • Nov 2008
              • 5747

              #7
              Oaks should be playing golf and chasing grandchildren.
              He's showing his age. He's stumbling around these debates like Willie Mays in the 1973 World Series.
              "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
              -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

              Comment

              • Topper
                Pre-Historic Man
                • Nov 2011
                • 11764

                #8
                Originally posted by Solon View Post
                Oaks should be playing golf and chasing grandchildren.
                He's showing his age. He's stumbling around these debates like Willie Mays in the 1973 World Series.
                You are too young to remember Willie Mays in 1973. Although given your skill at researching ancient events, I can see why you might be familiar with that event.
                "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                Comment

                • pellegrino
                  miserere me
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 12100

                  #9
                  Interesting that BYU-Idaho has become the new venue for ultra-conservative/orthodox speeches. I guess BYU-Original is getting too liberal for stuff like that to fly.
                  Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
                  God forgives many things for an act of mercy
                  Alessandro Manzoni

                  Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

                  pelagius

                  Comment

                  • USUC
                    Chronic Poseur
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 8777

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Applejack View Post
                    I used to really admire Oaks, but his religious-freedoms kick has soured me. He is very disingenuous when he talks about what (1) free exercise meant to the founders and (2) the tyranny of the court system.
                    His assertion of what free exercise meant to the founders is specifically disingenuous. The level of religiosity in the Founders is well documented in their numerous writings and memoirs. And their intent of freedom of religion is quite clear.

                    Comment

                    • pellegrino
                      miserere me
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 12100

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Solon View Post
                      Oaks should be playing golf and chasing grandchildren.
                      He's showing his age. He's stumbling around these debates like Willie Mays in the 1973 World Series.
                      You mean Willie Mays is going to be the next prophet?
                      Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
                      God forgives many things for an act of mercy
                      Alessandro Manzoni

                      Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

                      pelagius

                      Comment

                      • DrumNFeather
                        Invisible Swordsman
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 8854

                        #12
                        Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                        Unlike Alec Baldwin's farewell letter, which I couldn't get past the first paragraph, it's not a difficult read. Took me less than 60 seconds.
                        Humblebrag.
                        "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

                        Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

                        Comment

                        • Topper
                          Pre-Historic Man
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 11764

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DrumNFeather View Post
                          Humblebrag.
                          He must have pondered it. Most of us only took less than thirty.
                          "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                          Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                          Comment

                          • scottie
                            Junior Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 5247

                            #14
                            Kind of interesting that that hit Mormon newsroom the same day the talk was given.

                            Comment

                            • pellegrino
                              miserere me
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 12100

                              #15
                              Originally posted by scottie View Post
                              Kind of interesting that that hit Mormon newsroom the same day the talk was given.
                              sounds like a correlated effort.
                              Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
                              God forgives many things for an act of mercy
                              Alessandro Manzoni

                              Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

                              pelagius

                              Comment

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