Cohabitation and marriage...thoughts?

[Idon'tgnawonmywife]

Hey guys,

Totally realize a topic like this could just as easily go around the water cooler as it were, but I kinda wanted to get yalls' perspective on it in a religious (and obviously at least somewhat LDS) context

I've always been pretty much happily single, so the reason that this is something on my mind is due to the imminent engagement of my non-lds best friend (by the way, I say non-lds just for clarification; most of my friends are non-members...go figuah!).

Anyway, said best friend is the lone liberal in his family - with his parents wondering why he (and the accompanying she) have taken almost six years to get to this point; especially when they have had stable jobs since their inception.

On one side, you have the groom to be saying "I just don't believe in living in a tent" (...but did his father dwell in one? Lol, BoM reference!), while on the other you got the parents saying "It's all about the commitment." I suppose the third side would be my friend's religious sister (no doubt he loves her more than his own mom!), who despite her agreeing with the parents, lamented "That was a different time, mom, and this is now."

...dinner table conversations are the best!

Naturally, I told my parents of witnessing this exchange and (warning, possible BKP reference approaching!) my mom relayed something she said she once heard during a conference/devotional/something mormon where BKP said "The new morality is the old immorality." Meanwhile, dad was busy watching the desert being combed in Spaceballs.

So yeah, this is an interesting topic to me, and with the diverse amount of opinions here, I just thought I'd throw out a few questions for the gallery:

What are your thoughts on cohabitation/marriage...are they perhaps slowly becoming interchangeable to our society at-large?

On the morality scale (or wheel of morality, if you ever watched Animaniacs), how "bad/wrong" (if at all) does cohabitation register to you?

And I guess, finally, how do you (again, if at all) see the movement towards cohabitation (or whatever you wanna call it really) affecting the LDS church?

Personally, I totally get the reasons behind cohabitation, but I do wonder how different the transition to marriage feels to a couple who cohabited and to the couple who waited oh so faithfully until their day.

Either way, there are greater degrees of sinnery to be had, so to me...so again, I do wonder what's gonna happen with cohabitation vis a vis society and the LDS church. It is most definitely a curiosity.

Thanks for reading guys and my sincere seasonal holidays apologies if this topic has been breached before.

Enlighten me, you assholes!

[Uncle Ted]

Hey guys,

Totally realize a topic like this could just as easily go around the water cooler as it were, but I kinda wanted to get yalls' perspective on it in a religious (and obviously at least somewhat LDS) context

I've always been pretty much happily single, so the reason that this is something on my mind is due to the imminent engagement of my non-lds best friend (by the way, I say non-lds just for clarification; most of my friends are non-members...go figuah!).

Anyway, said best friend is the lone liberal in his family - with his parents wondering why he (and the accompanying she) have taken almost six years to get to this point; especially when they have had stable jobs since their inception.

On one side, you have the groom to be saying "I just don't believe in living in a tent" (...but did his father dwell in one? Lol, BoM reference!), while on the other you got the parents saying "It's all about the commitment." I suppose the third side would be my friend's religious sister (no doubt he loves her more than his own mom!), who despite her agreeing with the parents, lamented "That was a different time, mom, and this is now."

...dinner table conversations are the best!

Naturally, I told my parents of witnessing this exchange and (warning, possible BKP reference approaching!) my mom relayed something she said she once heard during a conference/devotional/something mormon where BKP said "The new morality is the old immorality." Meanwhile, dad was busy watching the desert being combed in Spaceballs.

So yeah, this is an interesting topic to me, and with the diverse amount of opinions here, I just thought I'd throw out a few questions for the gallery:

What are your thoughts on cohabitation/marriage...are they perhaps slowly becoming interchangeable to our society at-large?

On the morality scale (or wheel of morality, if you ever watched Animaniacs), how "bad/wrong" (if at all) does cohabitation register to you?

And I guess, finally, how do you (again, if at all) see the movement towards cohabitation (or whatever you wanna call it really) affecting the LDS church?

Personally, I totally get the reasons behind cohabitation, but I do wonder how different the transition to marriage feels to a couple who cohabited and to the couple who waited oh so faithfully until their day.

Either way, there are greater degrees of sinnery to be had, so to me...so again, I do wonder what's gonna happen with cohabitation vis a vis society and the LDS church. It is most definitely a curiosity.

Thanks for reading guys and my sincere seasonal holidays apologies if this topic has been breached before.

Enlighten me, you assholes!

Wasn't this already determined by the "war in heaven"? If not then are we living satan's plan? Laws on marriage sort of make it seem that we are.

"Victory in the War in Heaven was a victory for man's agency."
- L. Tom Perry

You have agency, and you are free to choose. But there is actually no free agency. Agency has its price. You have to pay the consequences of your choices.
-Dieter F. Utchdorf

[jay santos]

The older I get, the more socially liberal I am becoming. But I still maintain very conservative views on marriage and family. Not as far as laws and pushing my view on others, but just in terms of what I believe is ideal for children, adults, and society in general. I feel strongly that for the most part, adults are happiest over a lifetime when they are in long lasting relationships and that kids are happiest and most well adjusted when being raised by together by their parents. Can this be accomplished with cohabitation? In theory, sure. But in practice, probably not. Marriage is really tough. The odds are against you going your entire marriage without divorcing or at least wanting to divorce in a really bad way. Without the legal bond of formal marriage and without a strong commitment to the institution of marriage, many marriages that last probably wouldn't.

[YOhio]

It's none of my business except I don't think that a couple living together for a decade should make a big deal out of a wedding or engagement.

[Uncle Ted]

The older I get, the more socially liberal I am becoming. But I still maintain very conservative views on marriage and family. Not as far as laws and pushing my view on others, but just in terms of what I believe is ideal for children, adults, and society in general. I feel strongly that for the most part, adults are happiest over a lifetime when they are in long lasting relationships and that kids are happiest and most well adjusted when being raised by together by their parents. Can this be accomplished with cohabitation? In theory, sure. But in practice, probably not. Marriage is really tough. The odds are against you going your entire marriage without divorcing or at least wanting to divorce in a really bad way. Without the legal bond of formal marriage and without a strong commitment to the institution of marriage, many marriages that last probably wouldn't.

George Washington never had the legal bond of formal (government approved) marriage as well as most of the early citizens of the USA. Most of their marriages, by your logic, must have been shit.

Why couldn't just religion define "formal" marriage? For example, an LDS temple marriage seems pretty formal to me.

[jay santos]

George Washington never had the legal bond of formal (government approved) marriage as well as most of the early citizens of the USA. Most of their marriages, by your logic, must have been shit.

Why couldn't just religion define "formal" marriage? For example, an LDS temple marriage seems pretty formal to me.

No, the opposite, by my logic. If they stayed together without formal, legal marriage creating a barrier for them to dissolve their relationship, their relationship must have been great! It's obviously a different time, though, and impossible to make comparisons.

[Uncle Ted]

No, the opposite, by my logic. If they stayed together without formal, legal marriage creating a barrier for them to dissolve their relationship, their relationship must have been great! It's obviously a different time, though, and impossible to make comparisons.

If divorce was illegal (which creates a hellova barrier) then all marriages would be great?

I think the catholic church tries to use that logic but if you are rich enough you can buy your way out.

[jay santos]

If divorce was illegal (which creates a hellova barrier) then all marriages would be great?

I think the catholic church tries to use that logic but if you are rich enough you can buy your way out.

I must not be making myself clear. Most marriages suck. But in the aggregate, I believe the total sum for all involved is good to stick marriages out. As always, when you talk in aggregates, there always many individual cases where they are not sum good for all involved to keep the marriage intact.

[jay santos]

The act of marriage can be compared to entering a long term savings contract with penalties if you pull the money out. You do it because you know you want to save the money and if you have it in a more liquid investment, you know you'll just take it out the first time you think you need it.

[Uncle Ted]

The act of marriage can be compared to entering a long term savings contract with penalties if you pull the money out. You do it because you know you want to save the money and if you have it in a more liquid investment, you know you'll just take it out the first time you think you need it.

So maybe the catholics have it right. They don't believe in divorce (that barrier you talk about) but if you pay enough money (i.e. penalties) then you can get an annulment in the church's eyes. Maybe the government should adopt the catholic way of doing marriage.

The way it is now I see divorce lawyers advertising divorces for $299 or less. That doesn't seem like much of a barrier.

[byu71]

For about six weeks a lady I was serious with and her daughter lived with me while her house was being remodeled. I guess that was cohabitation although I looked at it as doing a favor for a friend.

That six weeks help save me from making an awful mistake and eventually going through a second divorce.

Marriage just isn't what it used to be, in my opinion. Instead of it being a traditional institutional thing, I think it is now something looked upon from an individuals perspective instead of a societal perspective.

[All-American]

George Washington never had the legal bond of formal (government approved) marriage as well as most of the early citizens of the USA. Most of their marriages, by your logic, must have been shit.

It certainly didn't do any good for any of his children.

[Sullyute]

Taxes can be a big factor in marriage. Depending on your income, two working professionals may pay higher income tax after getting married than they would when single. Estate and gift tax favors marriage as you have an unlimited transfer exclusion to a spouse.

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[wuapinmon]

For about six weeks a lady I was serious with and her daughter lived with me while her house was being remodeled. I guess that was cohabitation although I looked at it as doing a favor for a friend.

That six weeks help save me from making an awful mistake and eventually going through a second divorce.

Marriage just isn't what it used to be, in my opinion. Instead of it being a traditional institutional thing, I think it is now something looked upon from an individuals perspective instead of a societal perspective.

Wisdom here.

[Goatnapper'96]

The older I get, the more socially liberal I am becoming. But I still maintain very conservative views on marriage and family. Not as far as laws and pushing my view on others, but just in terms of what I believe is ideal for children, adults, and society in general. I feel strongly that for the most part, adults are happiest over a lifetime when they are in long lasting relationships and that kids are happiest and most well adjusted when being raised by together by their parents. Can this be accomplished with cohabitation? In theory, sure. But in practice, probably not. Marriage is really tough. The odds are against you going your entire marriage without divorcing or at least wanting to divorce in a really bad way. Without the legal bond of formal marriage and without a strong commitment to the institution of marriage, many marriages that last probably wouldn't.

I think I agree with Jay in principle. I don't know if I care that much about legal definitions as I do my interpretation of cultural trends. Laws just generally reflect those anyhow. I believe that society is benefitted with "traditional" family structure of spouses/partners etc committed to each other, their relationship (let it be married or just living together) and their children. I think legal marriage, and all that it entails, is a manifestation of cultural sentiments reflecting that. Culturally that sentiment was strong enough that it was codified and the legal arrangement was given certain benefits. I don't think the same percentages hold similar views on the legal definition/governmental role today and given the growing number of divorces and kids born into and raised in less than ideal environments I am prone to believe that culturally we do not value or see benefit in working to maintain long term relationships and bring children into the world within the security of such arrangement like we once did for a variety of reasons. I don't think I find the current trends healthy.