Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[Bo Diddley]

clack, are you doing Amway?

[Northwestcoug]

why are these things exclusive



how do you make these benefits available to everyone? is there some kind of entitlement to getting a seed round? do people have better access to education and capital because they're better at what they do? at what point do you intervene to level the playing field?



nobody is saying that the average person can become a billionaire. the point is that almost no billionaires are billionaires because they inherit it or come from exceptional circumstances. the class warfare circlejerk is dumb.

You keep missing my point. I've said more than once that these people excel at what they do, but they also do it with advantages that are not available to everyone in society. The question is what to do, if anything, with this discrepancy. I'm not looking to level the playing field so that everyone can become rich entrepreneurs if they want. Rather, I see significant deficiencies in society that are a moral responsibility to address (sorry BFM!). I believe that the super rich benefit more from built-in advantages of society than the majority of people. This is either a bug or a feature. I believe it should be viewed as a bug. I have no qualms about increasing taxes on them, including returning to a very high marginal rate after some millions of income. I think even in the best of times the government is underfunded, and my wish list for society still needs to be addressed. Again, I know that increased tax revenue is not going to solve much on its own, but it is a start.

[swampfrog]

Without looking into it I'll take your word that there's some of these that came from 'disadvantaged' backgrounds and didn't go to Ivy League schools. And they overcame significant odds to be where they are today. That's beside my point. At some point along the way most of them were able to take advantage of societal benefits not available to everyone. From generational wealth (not talking about riches) achieved by parents, relatively decent education, a favorable justice system that didn't trip them up early in life, favorable access to capital, etc. Those are benefits not available to everyone. In a different era, someone said it less elegantly, 'you didn't build that'. But it's not that far from the truth.

Look, all this is me saying I think the true extent of social mobility in the US is very far away from our perception of it, and there's still significant structural issues impeding too many people here. And it's not just a racial issue, there's plenty of poor white people who don't have access to the dream. The societal fixes on my wish list require a lot of cash. And those rich bastards can afford to pay more to fund utopia!

“No society can be simultaneously fair, free, and equal. If it is fair, people who work harder can accumulate more. If it is free, people will give their wealth to their children. But then it cannot be equal, for some people will inherit wealth they did not earn.” -- Steven Pinker

Take the assumption that wealth is defined as all of the advantages conferred from parents to children, not just finances. Work ethic, habits, culture, networks, diet, genetics, wisdom, knowledge, values, etc. Parents confer the advantages and disadvantages of their lineage on their children. The only level playing field in such a complex set of attributes is at the bottom.

The real dilemma is figuring out what's fair. How does a society distinguish accomplishment from unfair advantage? Especially when generational accomplishment is considered.

Education seems to be one of the best societal tools out there, but that has the same conundrum built in. Inheritance will still play a large part in educational performance.

I have no answers, but I would at least take a look at what societies have at least provided the most mobility. Equality as a goal is mostly a mirage. It goes away as soon as you think you are close.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I believe that the super rich benefit more from built-in advantages of society than the majority of people. This is either a bug or a feature. I believe it should be viewed as a bug.

Could you be more specific when throwing out statements like this?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Educated and very successful people are the worst candidates to become billionaires. They get on the career track and get so comfortable in their day-to-day lives, that they put aside the dreams and show up to work each morning and pull the plow for another ten hours - and then their families suck the rest of their time till midnight when it starts over.

Boom! Checkmate, NWC. Educated and successful people are actually at a DISADVANTAGE in America.

Dammit, those uneducated slackers have all the luck.

[Katy Lied]

I may become a billionaire by 2025. On paper for sure - but also with a solid nine figure cash liquidity by then.

baby needs new shoes

Gary? Is that you?

[Joe Public]

Could you be more specific when throwing out statements like this?

That's my question as well.

Also, go get 'em, clack!

[old_gregg]

You keep missing my point. I've said more than once that these people excel at what they do, but they also do it with advantages that are not available to everyone in society. The question is what to do, if anything, with this discrepancy. I'm not looking to level the playing field so that everyone can become rich entrepreneurs if they want. Rather, I see significant deficiencies in society that are a moral responsibility to address (sorry BFM!). I believe that the super rich benefit more from built-in advantages of society than the majority of people. This is either a bug or a feature. I believe it should be viewed as a bug. I have no qualms about increasing taxes on them, including returning to a very high marginal rate after some millions of income. I think even in the best of times the government is underfunded, and my wish list for society still needs to be addressed. Again, I know that increased tax revenue is not going to solve much on its own, but it is a start.

i don’t know what any of this means. i just gave you a list of the richest people in america people who came from unexceptional and non privileged backgrounds. many of them had objectively poor childhoods. you haven’t given any examples of the advantages from which the super rich benefitted that aren’t widely available. i’m saying that your point is unclear so as to not worth talking about (other than trading smug platitudes like “taxation is theft” and “wealth is immoral”) until there are specific examples of the structural advantages they enjoyed.

[Northwestcoug]

i don’t know what any of this means. i just gave you a list of the richest people in america people who came from unexceptional and non privileged backgrounds. many of them had objectively poor childhoods. you haven’t given any examples of the advantages from which the super rich benefitted that aren’t widely available. i’m saying that your point is unclear so as to not worth talking about (other than trading smug platitudes like “taxation is theft” and “wealth is immoral”) until there are specific examples of the structural advantages they enjoyed.

Until I have time to flesh this out, and knowing it will likely not be sufficient for you, I can only say that the rich can become super rich relatively easily in this society. Here's another platitude: wealth begets wealth. I think that the most of the economic mobility in the US is skewed towards the rich. This is where most of the structural advantages lie.

Sorry, that's all I got for now.

[old_gregg]

Until I have time to flesh this out, and knowing it will likely not be sufficient for you, I can only say that the rich can become super rich relatively easily in this society. Here's another platitude: wealth begets wealth. I think that the most of the economic mobility in the US is skewed towards the rich. This is where most of the structural advantages lie.

Sorry, that's all I got for now.

i just gave you a long list of people who did not start from a place of wealth

[Northwestcoug]

i just gave you a long list of people who did not start from a place of wealth

You keep missing my point; is it intentional? I never said they started with wealth, though most of them did likely have access to advantages not shared with all of society (neither here nor there for this discussion, but still a problem for many in society). My last comment was about the ease of which the rich become super rich. That's another problem.

[old_gregg]

You keep missing my point; is it intentional? I never said they started with wealth, though most of them did likely have access to advantages not shared with all of society (neither here nor there for this discussion, but still a problem for many in society). My last comment was about the ease of which the rich become super rich. That's another problem.

i am asking for specific examples of those advantages

[Jeff Lebowski]

You keep missing my point; is it intentional? I never said they started with wealth, though most of them did likely have access to advantages not shared with all of society (neither here nor there for this discussion, but still a problem for many in society). My last comment was about the ease of which the rich become super rich. That's another problem.

They got super rich the exact same way they got rich. How could you hinder the former without hindering the latter?

[Non Sequitur]

If allowed - I'd like to share my thoughts on this subject - as I may be closer to it than most of you.

I may become a billionaire by 2025. On paper for sure - but also with a solid nine figure cash liquidity by then. Two partners and I are launching our startup in Jan 2022.

I don't think it's possible for the "average person" to become a billionaire. Average people - have average thoughts. Average people have average access to resources. Average people are too caught up in their own ego to "hand the baby off" to another set of hands. Average people have no clue of the million steps it takes to go from idea - to - net income.

And yet you guys know me - mostly - as a dullard - unsophisticated - and an average person as compared to the best and the brightest on this board. But why do I have a shot? I have a shot because I think differently than the average person - I have had enough financial success in my life to have developed relationships with other successful people who also have developed important relationships. Relationships is the key from moving from millionaire to billionaire. The average person does not have that foundation. The three of us are able to self fund the project without outside investment. - Average people don't get money from VC's - average people can't self fund a million dollars.

Educated and very successful people are the worst candidates to become billionaires. They get on the career track and get so comfortable in their day-to-day lives, that they put aside the dreams and show up to work each morning and pull the plow for another ten hours - and then their families suck the rest of their time till midnight when it starts over. In the long run they will become millionaires - and find themselves safe and sound - but not G650 billionaires.

Covid was my ticket. At 61, I could ride out the pandemic for a couple or three years - wife left me alone - I stayed home - and put on my data scientist hat. Rather than waste time - I decided to build a project - what could I do? Took me two weeks to land on an idea - took me two months to craft it into detail - presented it to two business partners of the past - we incorporated - and from March of 2020 till Jan 2022 we have been working on building our web enterprise. We subbed our code to a company in Vancouver BC - who has since become a minor partner - and as of today - we are right on track. It's amazing really.

I've alluded to my project through some posts - and I'm not boasting here - just saying that I'm at home plate - got a bat in my hand - am pointing to left field - and am about to foul a couple of pitches before I connect in 2022. Yes - I think of myself as average - and yet I'm in the midst of building something that has the potential to be way beyond average.

So my contribution to this conversation is this - the puzzle pieces are on the ground - ready to be picked up - but the average person will have no clue what to do with a single puzzle piece. You have to be above average to know how to put it all together. You have to have time to put it all together. You're willing to risk your financial future - and because you're not average - you roll the dice.

baby needs new shoes

And to think, I used to respect you. Eye of the needle, buddy.

[clackamascoug]

Gary? Is that you?

Yes - I'm Gary Puckett from the Union Gap. I've laid hints about my true identity for 12 years - but you're the first one to nail me. Congrats.