Temple movie: changing doctrine without changing text

[jay santos]

So in the previous temple movie and in the text of the Bible and PoGP and as most commonly taught and inferred by Christian and Mormon doctrine, Eve is tricked (beguiled) by Satan to take the fruit. She's punished for it specifically (pain in child birth) and Satan is punished specifically for it (crawl around on your belly).

The notion that Eve acted with intelligence and integrity and not tricked into it because she's the dumber, more greedy of the two sexes, has been a thought that's slowly picked up steam for a while. Feminist movement and women wanting to be treated like equals, all that crap.

The new temple movie makes a bold statement that this is exactly what happened. The text has not changed, but the dramatic portrayal makes it perfectly clear that Eve made a deliberate, intelligent, moral decision by analyzing the choice and choosing the greater good.

What's a little awkward about this is that they're stuck with the text that's already written into the scriptures. The text makes no sense with this new portrayal.

In the context of the discussion of changing LDS doctrine, I think this is an interesting case study.

[Uncle Ted]

If Eve made the intelligent and "greater good" decision then why are Eve and women, in general, punished for it by all knowing God? Does God punish people for the hell of it?

[Indy Coug]

We're all being punished.

[Uncle Ted]

We're all being punished.

"We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression."

However, women got to live in a lone and shitty dreary world beside the having the whole pain in child bearing thing. Therefore, thanks to Eve, women seemed to have received a double whammy.

[Indy Coug]

"We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression."

However, women got to live in a lone and shitty dreary world beside the having the whole pain in child bearing thing. Therefore, thanks to Eve, women seemed to have received a double whammy.

First, I think women were already tabbed to be spitting out kids, independent of Eve's nutritional choices.

Second, we are all punished not because of Adam and Eve's life particulars, but because mortality is just a big kick in the ass.

[pellegrino]

So in the previous temple movie and in the text of the Bible and PoGP and as most commonly taught and inferred by Christian and Mormon doctrine, Eve is tricked (beguiled) by Satan to take the fruit. She's punished for it specifically (pain in child birth) and Satan is punished specifically for it (crawl around on your belly).

The notion that Eve acted with intelligence and integrity and not tricked into it because she's the dumber, more greedy of the two sexes, has been a thought that's slowly picked up steam for a while. Feminist movement and women wanting to be treated like equals, all that crap.

The new temple movie makes a bold statement that this is exactly what happened. The text has not changed, but the dramatic portrayal makes it perfectly clear that Eve made a deliberate, intelligent, moral decision by analyzing the choice and choosing the greater good.

What's a little awkward about this is that they're stuck with the text that's already written into the scriptures. The text makes no sense with this new portrayal.

In the context of the discussion of changing LDS doctrine, I think this is an interesting case study.

I don't think Mormons have ever believed that Eve was tricked, or that she acted stupidly. Every time I was taught this as a kid Eve was praised as being the one who realized that they couldn't move forward without eating the fruit and so that's why she did it. Everyone always cited Moses 5:11 as proof.

11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

Furthermore, I think the old film made subtle reference to this in the way that Eve reacted to Satan's buffeting.

[dabrockster]

So in the previous temple movie and in the text of the Bible and PoGP and as most commonly taught and inferred by Christian and Mormon doctrine, Eve is tricked (beguiled) by Satan to take the fruit. She's punished for it specifically (pain in child birth) and Satan is punished specifically for it (crawl around on your belly).

The notion that Eve acted with intelligence and integrity and not tricked into it because she's the dumber, more greedy of the two sexes, has been a thought that's slowly picked up steam for a while. Feminist movement and women wanting to be treated like equals, all that crap.

The new temple movie makes a bold statement that this is exactly what happened. The text has not changed, but the dramatic portrayal makes it perfectly clear that Eve made a deliberate, intelligent, moral decision by analyzing the choice and choosing the greater good.

What's a little awkward about this is that they're stuck with the text that's already written into the scriptures. The text makes no sense with this new portrayal.

In the context of the discussion of changing LDS doctrine, I think this is an interesting case study.

I found Adam to be more "robotic" and dumb based on his actions and speak (I think his acting gives that impression, not sure that was what they were looking to accomplish).. The tears from both do show the love for each other and could bring in other type of interpretation to what took place.

Just went last night..


Added:
I found the subtle pauses to have a tremendous impact in my feelings on it.. Satan comes across as more.. Well.. Evil. I mean real evil..

[PaloAltoCougar]

I don't think Mormons have ever believed that Eve was tricked, or that she acted stupidly. Every time I was taught this as a kid Eve was praised as being the one who realized that they couldn't move forward without eating the fruit and so that's why she did it. Everyone always cited Moses 5:11 as proof.

Furthermore, I think the old film made subtle reference to this in the way that Eve reacted to Satan's buffeting.

I agree with this, and think the new film is more effective in conveying it. It also made me think that A&E (not the network) didn't really care about getting booted out of the Garden, but were ashamed they'd disobeyed, let down, their father. I can relate to that. Who cares about the penalty? We disappointed Dad! Although I don't think they did...

Whenever I've taught lessons involving Adam and Eve, I've noted that the Garden of Eden scenes in the temple films always make it look like a beautiful, idyllic spot, but also a very boring place to live. You've got Eve wandering around carrying a sheep with now apparent destination and Adam sitting by a pond dipping his hand absentmindedly in the water, with absolutely nothing going on. The lone and dreary world, with all of the joys, disappointments, successes and hardships, etc., is a much more interesting place to live. When doing yardwork, and battling with thistles and noxious weeds, I sometimes wish Adam had abstained. But after reflection, I always think, "Nice going, Eve!"

[Commando]

I like the apocryphal books that describe Adam in particular as wildly depressed once he goes out of the garden. I really think there's a lot of scripture in some of those.

[jay santos]

In what way did Satan beguile Eve? It seems he simply taught her truth and let her decide.

[LA Ute]

I agree with this, and think the new film is more effective in conveying it. It also made me think that A&E (not the network) didn't really care about getting booted out of the Garden, but were ashamed they'd disobeyed, let down, their father. I can relate to that. Who cares about the penalty? We disappointed Dad! Although I don't think they did...

Whenever I've taught lessons involving Adam and Eve, I've noted that the Garden of Eden scenes in the temple films always make it look like a beautiful, idyllic spot, but also a very boring place to live. You've got Eve wandering around carrying a sheep with now apparent destination and Adam sitting by a pond dipping his hand absentmindedly in the water, with absolutely nothing going on. The lone and dreary world, with all of the joys, disappointments, successes and hardships, etc., is a much more interesting place to live. When doing yardwork, and battling with thistles and noxious weeds, I sometimes wish Adam had abstained. But after reflection, I always think, "Nice going, Eve!"

Good post.

[Uncle Ted]

I don't think Mormons have ever believed that Eve was tricked, or that she acted stupidly. Every time I was taught this as a kid Eve was praised as being the one who realized that they couldn't move forward without eating the fruit and so that's why she did it. Everyone always cited Moses 5:11 as proof.



Furthermore, I think the old film made subtle reference to this in the way that Eve reacted to Satan's buffeting.

So Eve decided on her own that she needed to eat the fruit to move forward? One would think she would first consult with Adam and it would be a joint decision. Instead she put Adam in a position where he had no other choice.

[snowcat]

So Eve decided on her own that she needed to eat the fruit to move forward? One would think she would first consult with Adam and it would be a joint decision. Instead she put Adam in a position where he had no other choice.

Are you married?

[clackamascoug]

This begs of a poll. Do you really think the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden unfolded as depicted in the temple?

I think the major points are covered, realization that progression is only realized with sin, and that from the beginning the Savior was pinching two opposites for forward progression. Thus the law of opposites. But two naive people wandering around naked is pushing it for me. I think they were more aware and were part of a bigger picture.

[smokymountainrain]

In what way did Satan beguile Eve? It seems he simply taught her truth and let her decide.

I've wondered the same. Also, the most annoying scene in the movie:

This may or may not be verbatim...

"How is this teaching being received"

"Very well...Except they don't believe a damn word I'm teaching them"

Then how is the teaching being received "very well"?!