If a female tried to get into the priesthood session of GC...

[byu71]

Gotta be addicted to porn and simply trying to compensate.

I wonder what percentage of members understand this is a valid possibility. I have only known of two actual situations where this was the case, so can't say for sure it is a valid based on two situations.

Also I have never had a leadership role where I would know the deep secrets of members in the ward.

[FMCoug]

I think this is pretty rare behavior (thank goodness).

True. But what does it say about the Bishop who wanted him as a counselor? Or the SP who approved.

Guys like this need to be marginalIzed, not given official sanction.

[Solon]

OW movement launches new strategy:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...ssion.html.csp


Probably a better idea than trying to attend priesthood meeting. But Patriarchy Bingo? Seriously?

Yikes.

The Economist had an article last week about women in Saudi Arabia. While I don't want to go overboard with comparisons, there were a few interesting things in the article that made me think of the OW movement.
(Here's the article: http://www.economist.com/news/middle...ing-themselves)

1. A Saudi Arabian government poll back in 2006 found that 89% of Saudi women thought they should not be allowed to drive.
While the "women don't want the priesthood anyway" approach falls down as a logical argument, there is a strong rhetorical current among many LDS women that things are great the way they are and they have no need/desire for priesthood. The status quo can be a hard nut to crack. We shake our heads at women thinking they should be prohibited from driving. I wonder if, someday the majority of membership will shake their heads at LDS women having claimed that they shouldn't have the priesthood.

2. Change is slow because the highest echelons of Saudi political/religious leadership are really old (the current king will turn 90 this summer).
Even though reforms & changes are trickling down to Saudi women, the age of the leadership is viewed as a hindrance to true change. This also implies that the changes are just a matter of generational norms - inevitable, but slow as hell when leadership holds on into the dotage years. The most persuasive activists seem dedicated to working within "the system" (religious & political), especially since these women have no intention of discarding Islam (not that they have a choice in that respect, but the activists clearly have religious devotion).

3. Religion & Tradition often beat Logic & Science.
A growing group of Saudi women have started to agitate for change. In the midst of a campaign to mobilize women for a car-driving protest last year, in September, 2013, a Saudi Sheikh warned Saudi women that driving could ruin their pelvises & ovaries, hindering fertility.
Read about it here: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vari...rns-women.html

Again, I don't want to overdo the comparisons, but the women's movement in Saudi Arabia has some striking similarities to the OW movement in the LDS church.

That should give us all pause.

[The_Douger]

Interesting.

Reminds me of something. I was talking to my brother last week and he said there is a couple in his neighborhood that everyone had been gently fellowshipping and trying to activate over the years. Just as they started attending church, one of the bishopric members came asked the husband's permission to extend a calling to the wife. He responded, "Why are you asking me? You should be asking her. She is an adult, she can make her own decisions." The call was then extended to the wife and she politely declined. Bishopric member returned to the husband and told him that as the head of his household, it was his duty to call his wife to repentance and convince her to accept the calling. He told the guy to bug off and they are no longer interested in church. Neighbors now want to strangle bishopric member.

I will never for the life of me understand how there's still people out there in the church that think that's a good way to go about things.

[byu71]

Yikes.

The Economist had an article last week about women in Saudi Arabia. While I don't want to go overboard with comparisons, there were a few interesting things in the article that made me think of the OW movement.
(Here's the article: http://www.economist.com/news/middle...ing-themselves)

1. A Saudi Arabian government poll back in 2006 found that 89% of Saudi women thought they should not be allowed to drive.
While the "women don't want the priesthood anyway" approach falls down as a logical argument, there is a strong rhetorical current among many LDS women that things are great the way they are and they have no need/desire for priesthood. The status quo can be a hard nut to crack. We shake our heads at women thinking they should be prohibited from driving. I wonder if, someday the majority of membership will shake their heads at LDS women having claimed that they shouldn't have the priesthood.

2. Change is slow because the highest echelons of Saudi political/religious leadership are really old (the current king will turn 90 this summer).
Even though reforms & changes are trickling down to Saudi women, the age of the leadership is viewed as a hindrance to true change. This also implies that the changes are just a matter of generational norms - inevitable, but slow as hell when leadership holds on into the dotage years. The most persuasive activists seem dedicated to working within "the system" (religious & political), especially since these women have no intention of discarding Islam (not that they have a choice in that respect, but the activists clearly have religious devotion).

3. Religion & Tradition often beat Logic & Science.
A growing group of Saudi women have started to agitate for change. In the midst of a campaign to mobilize women for a car-driving protest last year, in September, 2013, a Saudi Sheikh warned Saudi women that driving could ruin their pelvises & ovaries, hindering fertility.
Read about it here: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vari...rns-women.html

Again, I don't want to overdo the comparisons, but the women's movement in Saudi Arabia has some striking similarities to the OW movement in the LDS church.

That should give us all pause.

I paused, for a half a second. You didn't want to overdo comparisons, but then you did.

[Solon]

I paused, for a half a second. You didn't want to overdo comparisons, but then you did.

Not really.
Dissident Saudi women are threatened with imprisonment or worse. LDS women are not.
LDS women are free to find another religion.
Saudi women are not.
Etc.

[Moliere]

Niku - maybe the Area Authority will be Giff Nielsen, in which case you should accept the invite and have him sign a football. If it's any other person then you are probably best to decline. It's ironic that when you have issues with stuff you can't contact church HQ (or if you send a letter they'll just send it back to your SP) but when church HQ wants to contact you they feel it's their right. I'd politely decline and advise them you have already communicated your concerns through the proper Priesthood channels and they are free to discuss with your bishop if they feel inclined.

[creekster]

When I was called into the EQP, the high councilman asked my wife if they could extend the calling to me.

I have received at least four callings in the last 12 years where they asked my wife the same thing. To be clear I have never been bishop or in the stake presidency. These were pretty minor callings. Just how we roll in the creek, I guess. They asked me the same when my wife was made RS a few years back.

[YOhio]

I have received at least four callings in the last 12 years where they asked my wife the same thing. To be clear I have never been bishop or in the stake presidency. These were pretty minor callings. Just how we roll in the creek, I guess. They asked me the same when my wife was made RS a few years back.

Living outside of Utah and never a bishop or in the stake presidency? Interesting. I'm not judging or anything.

[creekster]

Living outside of Utah and never a bishop or in the stake presidency? Interesting. I'm not judging or anything.

Exactly. It shows there is some inspiration in the process, right?

[Pheidippides]

Niku - maybe the Area Authority will be Giff Nielsen, in which case you should accept the invite and have him sign a football. If it's any other person then you are probably best to decline. It's ironic that when you have issues with stuff you can't contact church HQ (or if you send a letter they'll just send it back to your SP) but when church HQ wants to contact you they feel it's their right. I'd politely decline and advise them you have already communicated your concerns through the proper Priesthood channels and they are free to discuss with your bishop if they feel inclined.

Lol. It's not Giff. I do have connections with him (friend of a friend).

I don't want to make too big of a deal out of the request. It's SOP for the SP to choose people to visit when an authority is visiting town, just as it is SOP for the bishop to choose people to visit with the SP when it is ward conference. I don't see anything other than the SP hoping the AP can help reactivate me and thinking it's a good visit.

I'm good friends with like half the high council and recently chatted it up with the SP 1st counselor at a triathlon, so I'm pretty sure I've been a topic of discussion. And I've told nobody about my reasons for leaving. Heck, the bishop confided in my wife they all think I'll be back soon. So naturally I'm on some top five list somewhere. Business as usual.

But, to end the threadjack, there are only four people in the stake who are versed enough in church history to have a discussion about the ideas underlying my reasons. One is my wife, and the other three are also women. So maybe their best bet is to get crackin' on that female ordination thing so they can visit instead.

[TripletDaddy]

Living outside of Utah and never a bishop or in the stake presidency? Interesting. I'm not judging or anything.

you shouldnt talk. You've never been a bishop or in the stake presidency, either. granted you are way younger than creekster, though and still have lots of time.

[Jeff Lebowski]

But, to end the threadjack, there are only four people in the stake who are versed enough in church history to have a discussion about the ideas underlying my reasons. One is my wife, and the other three are also women. So maybe their best bet is to get crackin' on that female ordination thing so they can visit instead.

Wow. It is incredible that you know every single person in your stake well enough to make that claim. That's impressive.

[Pheidippides]

Wow. It is incredible that you know every single person in your stake well enough to make that claim. That's impressive.

It's more incredible you take that statement at face value and not for the purpose for which it was intended even though I hinted strongly at the intent in the statement itself.

[cougjunkie]

But, to end the threadjack, there are only four people in the stake who are versed enough in church history to have a discussion about the ideas underlying my reasons. One is my wife, and the other three are also women. So maybe their best bet is to get crackin' on that female ordination thing so they can visit instead.

You live in Texas. This is like being the smartest kid in the special ed. class. Congrats!