If a female tried to get into the priesthood session of GC...

[Sullyute]

If 90 percent of LDS women don't want the priesthood, does that constitute common consent for not ordaining women?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...role-of-women/

That wasn't exactly what the poll asked. Plus this is a complicated issue. The question doesn't answer "why" so many sisters think women should not be ordain to the priesthood. Is it because they have been trained to think that? Is it because that is how things currently are and they are just following the prophet? Is it because so many talks equate priesthood with men and motherhood with women? Did they say no because they are already too busy and don't want any more work? What if the prophet announced that there is now a Miriam Priestesshood that is required to be a temple worker, how many women would want that? What if you needed it to be a sister missionary?

Because of the nature of religion (and religious culture), I think that this would have to be a poll that asked the question in many different ways in order to get a sincere answer instead of a response that the participants have been told for years is the correct answer.

[byu71]

This is what I was thinking about.
From the letter:

There really is no doctrinal argument to be made from scripture (if anything, there are OT & NT scriptural arguments to be made in favor of ordaining women).
The way I read it, the best rationale letters like this seem to offer is essentially, "We know that the Lord doesn't want women to have the priesthood because they don't have the priesthood." Seems like they're flirting with a claim to infallibility.

Women/girls can schedule meetings, sit on cushy podium-chairs, say prayers, and pass sacrament trays as well as men/boys.
It's just a matter of time, IMO.

Also, byu71 is dead to me for slamming women who teach college. :swear:

Ouch. You are one of the smart guys I listen too. I was just indicating the perspective she probably comes from. I will apologize if you will resurrect me.

[Flystripper]

My wife doesn't want the Priesthood.

FYI.

me neither!

[Nakoma]

That wasn't exactly what the poll asked. Plus this is a complicated issue. The question doesn't answer "why" so many sisters think women should not be ordain to the priesthood. Is it because they have been trained to think that? Is it because that is how things currently are and they are just following the prophet? Is it because so many talks equate priesthood with men and motherhood with women? Did they say no because they are already too busy and don't want any more work? What if the prophet announced that there is now a Miriam Priestesshood that is required to be a temple worker, how many women would want that? What if you needed it to be a sister missionary?

Because of the nature of religion (and religious culture), I think that this would have to be a poll that asked the question in many different ways in order to get a sincere answer instead of a response that the participants have been told for years is the correct answer.

I wonder what would happen if the FP and Q12 asked for a sustaining vote on the issue at GC that the priesthood is for men. If it were sustained by the Church membership, do you think the 8 percent supporting priesthood ordination (according to Pew) would let it go? I don't. As stated in the letter, it's non-negotiable for OW regardless of whether there is common consent.

[ERCougar]

I care because I have a daughter.

I love the argument that because most of them don't want it (as if we could really know this), then everything's just fine.

Sexism is the racism of the 21st century and Mormons are on the wrong side of history. Again.

[Sullyute]

I wonder what would happen if the FP and Q12 asked for a sustaining vote on the issue at GC that the priesthood is for men. If it were sustained by the Church membership, do you think the 8 percent supporting priesthood ordination (according to Pew) would let it go? I don't. As stated in the letter, it's non-negotiable for OW regardless of whether there is common consent.

I would probably agree with you on this because I believe that at the core of OW, their desire for the priesthood is a righteous one and the scriptures tell us that whatever the righteous desire will be granted them. (see Proverbs 10:24)

*Also a vote like that doesn't eliminate ordination to a priestesshood.

[ERCougar]

Wow, that letter's bad. I thought I had seen hints of the church softening on this issue, but that little allusion to doctrine just took away the escape clause about it being "policy, not doctrine". Bad idea. This will be like the Stapley letter in thirty years.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Wow, that letter's bad. I thought I had seen hints of the church softening on this issue, but that little allusion to doctrine just took away the escape clause about it being "policy, not doctrine". Bad idea. This will be like the Stapley letter in thirty years.

Come on. It's not THAT bad.

[Nakoma]

I care because I have a daughter.

I love the argument that because most of them don't want it (as if we could really know this), then everything's just fine.

Sexism is the racism of the 21st century and Mormons are on the wrong side of history. Again.

mormon-sec3-5.jpg

It seems we have a fair indication of the current position most women hold in the Church regarding ordination. However, some refuse to accept that position.

[TripletDaddy]

This is what I was thinking about.
From the letter:

There really is no doctrinal argument to be made from scripture (if anything, there are OT & NT scriptural arguments to be made in favor of ordaining women).
The way I read it, the best rationale letters like this seem to offer is essentially, "We know that the Lord doesn't want women to have the priesthood because they don't have the priesthood." Seems like they're flirting with a claim to infallibility.

Women/girls can schedule meetings, sit on cushy podium-chairs, say prayers, and pass sacrament trays as well as men/boys.
It's just a matter of time, IMO.

Also, byu71 is dead to me for slamming women who teach college. :swear:

Solon dropping knowledge while providing an excellent example of the phrase "begging the question." AA, can I get an amen here?

[Jeff Lebowski]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3909[/ATTACH]

It seems we have a fair indication of the current position most women hold in the Church regarding ordination. However, some refuse to accept that position.

I am struggling to see your point. Because most women don't want to rock the boat, these women should shut up and go away?

I bet if you did a poll prior to 1978 on blacks and the priesthood, you would have seen identical numbers.

[SCcoug]

This will be like the Stapley letter in thirty years.

Lol. A bit of hyperbole there. I mean there wasn't even a veiled reference to God striking down supporters of OW.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I am struggling to see your point. Because most women don't want to rock the boat, these women should shut up and go away?

I bet if you did a poll prior to 1978 on blacks and the priesthood, you would have seen identical numbers.

I'd bet those favoring blacks/priesthood just prior to June '78 would have been a little higher, and probably higher than the same blacks/priesthood poll in, say, 1948. Similarly, I think the poll for women/priesthood has increased somewhat over the years, and will continue to do so slowly. But I'm certain among active LDS those favoring female ordinations will never approach a majority until after (but the immediately after) the Brethren announce a change. I guess this is painfully obvious.

[Pheidippides]

John Dehlin just FB posted an essay that included the following text from a pamphlet:



But the pamphlet was from 100 years ago and it was published in opposition to women's suffrage.

Here's the blog he got the pamphlet from (I think - might be the other way round):

http://www.nearingkolob.com/mormon-newsroom-just-use-tactic-1910s-anti-womens-suffrage-group/

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'd bet those favoring blacks/priesthood just prior to June '78 would have been a little higher, and probably higher than the same blacks/priesthood poll in, say, 1948. Similarly, I think the poll for women/priesthood has increased somewhat over the years, and will continue to do so slowly. But I'm certain among active LDS those favoring female ordinations will never approach a majority until after (but the immediately after) the Brethren announce a change. I guess this is painfully obvious.

Exactly. In our LDS culture we overwhelmingly sustain and defend the status quo. Whatever it happens to be.