NY Times Article on Dissaffected Swedish Area Authority

[Pheidippides]

Yeah kinda like Jose Conseco.

Lol. Poor Jose. Telling the truth the entire time except nobody believed him.

[Northwestcoug]

Condoms did exist I think. You also have the allegations that Bennett was performing abortions for JS. But the source was Bennett himself, and Bennett was a known scoundrel and charlatan. He's the one source I almost always look at with extreme skepticism

A somewhat related tangent that deals with Joseph Smith's prophetic calling is how many 'scoundrels' he trusted with important callings. At least they are scoundrels as taught by the church. Bennet, Laws, Rigdon, etc.

[SoCalCoug]

22 looks pretty close to the average age of the women on that list.

So you agree that the explanation that girls back then married younger is bullshit.

[Indy Coug]

So you agree that the explanation that girls back then married younger is bullshit.

I think younger girls getting married back then raised fewer eyebrows than it does now (setting aside the topic of age differences between spouses). Whether or not the "average" of a skewed distribution was much different than it is now is a different question.

[Pheidippides]

A somewhat related tangent that deals with Joseph Smith's prophetic calling is how many 'scoundrels' he trusted with important callings. At least they are scoundrels as taught by the church. Bennet, Laws, Rigdon, etc.

I wouldn't classify the Laws as scoundrels at all. From what I read they seem to be pretty respectable and honorable people. I know the church has historically indicated otherwise.

But that doesn't mean your point is wrong at all. Rigdon, in my opinion, was the match that started Missouri burning, and of all the early church leaders he's the one I dislike the most in some ways.

[Indy Coug]

A somewhat related tangent that deals with Joseph Smith's prophetic calling is how many 'scoundrels' he trusted with important callings. At least they are scoundrels as taught by the church. Bennet, Laws, Rigdon, etc.

Christ hand picked Judas Iscariot. One has to wonder about that one too.

[Northwestcoug]

I wouldn't classify the Laws as scoundrels at all. From what I read they seem to be pretty respectable and honorable people. I know the church has historically indicated otherwise.

But that doesn't mean your point is wrong at all. Rigdon, in my opinion, was the match that started Missouri burning, and of all the early church leaders he's the one I dislike the most in some ways.

I wouldn't either. I view the Laws in a very sympathetic light.
Rigdon is an interesting case. No doubt he helped flame tensions in Missouri. But he did have Smith's teachings that it was their inheritance. And it was OK to potentially use violence to keep/reclaim the land.

[Bo Diddley]

I think younger girls getting married back then raised fewer eyebrows than it does now (setting aside the topic of age differences between spouses). Whether or not the "average" of a skewed distribution was much different than it is now is a different question.

You make a good point about something I've thought a lot about. The social context has changed drastically over the last 175 years or so. We're not exactly comparing apples to apples much of the time. I'm not saying we can't make comparisons. We just need to keep this in mind as we do so.

[Northwestcoug]

Christ hand picked Judas Iscariot. One has to wonder about that one too.

Yeah, what was he thinking about with THAT pick?

I'd take Jesus's luck at draft picks over Joseph's. At least half of them were busts, according to what I was taught.

[Indy Coug]

Yeah, what was he thinking about with THAT pick?

I'd take Jesus's luck at draft picks over Joseph's. At least half of them were busts, according to what I was taught.

I would expect Christ to have a higher batting average than anyone else, but it's interesting his batting average was at best 0.917 with his initial set of apostles.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Interesting non-mormon take on NYT article:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/getreli...skeptic-piece/

[All-American]

So you agree that the explanation that girls back then married younger is bullshit.

I think your citation of 22 years being the average age paints an incomplete picture. Surely your concerns regarding Brother Brigham's practices are not satisfied by the apparent fact that the average age of the women he married actually exceeds the norms of his day. If the average age of Brigham's wives (a healthy sample size, by any measure) doesn't tell the whole story, why does the average age of wives in society at large not draw similar scrutiny?

Truth be told, I am actually surprised to see so many older women on the list. It seems obvious enough that lust for fresh young tail did not motivate a healthy portion of Brigham's marriages. I'd be interested to know more about the life stories of some of the younger wives, too.

[Surfah]

Interesting non-mormon take on NYT article:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/getreli...skeptic-piece/

Pretty much my take on the article as written too. I did an eye roll when the author mentioned the Church is losing some of its best and brightest and then had the statistic of how many members served in leadership roles. What was that threshold? Deacons Quorum President? 2nd Counselor in Sunday School? Scoutmaster? Any active, worthy member will participate in some leadership role. And we all know that best and brightest isn't necessarily a requirement for any calling in the Church.

[jay santos]

Pretty much my take on the article as written too. I did an eye roll when the author mentioned the Church is losing some of its best and brightest and then had the statistic of how many members served in leadership roles. What was that threshold? Deacons Quorum President? 2nd Counselor in Sunday School? Scoutmaster? Any active, worthy member will participate in some leadership role. And we all know that best and brightest isn't necessarily a requirement for any calling in the Church.

I think Marlin K Jensen is the source of the "best and brightest" quote.

[MarkGrace]

I grew up in Mormon areas and have Mormon family members and ex-Mormon family and friends — the way this was worded struck me as slightly weird. Namely, while it’s true that polygamy might be more formally associated with Brigham Young, everyone is taught that Joseph Smith introduced the principle of polygamy. I’m not sure how much people get into how much he practiced his own teaching, but for those of us with some knowledge of LDS teaching on the matter, the idea that it would be foundation-crumbling to learn he practiced what he taught is — weird.

Lewboski wrote this article, didn't he?!