Leaving the Church

[cowboy]

Those of you who left the Church or have decided that it isn't God's church, please settle an argument.

My brother remarked that people who stop believing in the Church do so because their lifestyle is inconsistent with the Church's teachings, so they choose to change their beliefs rather than their lifestyle. I'm not so sure.

But this forum has the largest group of disaffected or previous Mormons that I associate with in one place, so I decided to ask. Before you stopped believing, was something in your life inconsistent with the teachings of the Church? I don't mean the little things like prayer and scripture study; more the things that would keep you out of the temple.

I'm also not asking for specifics. Just a yes or no would be fine. I'll make this a poll if you want to be anonymous, but I am interested in the answer.

[TripletDaddy]

Your brother's position is absolute for an entire segment of people. Does it take much imagination to know that not everyone leaves the Church for the same reason?

[byu71]

Those of you who left the Church or have decided that it isn't God's church, please settle an argument.

My brother remarked that people who stop believing in the Church do so because their lifestyle is inconsistent with the Church's teachings, so they choose to change their beliefs rather than their lifestyle. I'm not so sure.

But this forum has the largest group of disaffected or previous Mormons that I associate with in one place, so I decided to ask. Before you stopped believing, was something in your life inconsistent with the teachings of the Church? I don't mean the little things like prayer and scripture study; more the things that would keep you out of the temple.

I'm also not asking for specifics. Just a yes or no would be fine. I'll make this a poll if you want to be anonymous, but I am interested in the answer.

Maybe I haven't thought this through, but how could you stop living the lifestyle unless your belief changed first.

[SeattleUte]

YES. My apostasy was 100% metaphysical. For me wine, scotch, martinis, etc. was a taste I acquired subsequently. I was also unhitched at the time.

Your brother's position is the typical rationalization. Never mind that well over 95% of everyone who gets explosed to Mormonism decides it isn't true.

[Indy Coug]

For those that say yes, were you temple worthy because a bishop rubber stamped you as such, or could you truthfully represent yourself as such?

[UtahDan]

My brother remarked that people who stop believing in the Church do so because their lifestyle is inconsistent with the Church's teachings, so they choose to change their beliefs rather than their lifestyle. I'm not so sure.

I think your brother is wrong but a lot of people have a hard time internalizing the idea that a person leaves because they don't believe.

Think about the illogic of what is being said there: a believer leaves so that they can sin? Well if you are a believer you think the sin is wrong and that there is a penalty for it. What conceivable difference is there between being a member or not? Or your brother states it, they change their beliefs? I think people can decide that they are going to ignore what they believe, but folks believe things or not on their merits, the question of what they do with that information is not the same question as whether they believe.

I think that it is often true that by the time someone gets out that they have stopped living the standards but that is a symptom of unbelief in most cases not the underlying cause of why they think they should go, which again makes no sense at all if they still believe on any level.

I think it is natural for many church members to simply think, we all know the church is true so THAT can't be the reason they left, it has to be that they are weak or unworthy. I don't think that view holds up very well when you look at it closely.

[TripletDaddy]

YES. My apostasy was 100% metaphysical. For me wine, scotch, martinis, etc. was a taste I acquired subsequently. I was also unhitched at the time.

Your brother's position is the typical rationalization. Never mind that well over 95% of everyone who gets explosed to Mormonism decides it isn't true.

I'm part of the 5%. Loud and Proud!

[il Padrino Ute]

Never mind that well over 95% of everyone who gets explosed to Mormonism decides it isn't true.

Another high percentage claim?

Link?

[RockyBalboa]

My brother remarked that people who stop believing in the Church do so because their lifestyle is inconsistent with the Church's teachings, so they choose to change their beliefs rather than their lifestyle. I'm not so sure.

I don't know why it would it be so hard to believe that living a lifestyle inconsistent with church teachings would lead to a gradual loss of Faith.

I think that would be a big reason why a lot of people stop going to church,,,not just the LDS Church, but any church, because they've found the lifestyle they've started living isn't in harmony with what their church teaches.

Obviously that's not the case with every single person who would leave their church, as for some a loss of faith happens and then a change of lifestyle.

[TripletDaddy]

I think your brother is wrong but a lot of people have a hard time internalizing the idea that a person leaves because they don't believe.

Think about the illogic of what is being said there: a believer leaves so that they can sin? Well if you are a believer you think the sin is wrong and that there is a penalty for it. What conceivable difference is there between being a member or not? Or your brother states it, they change their beliefs? I think people can decide that they are going to ignore what they believe, but folks believe things or not on their merits, the question of what they do with that information is not the same question as whether they believe.

I think that it is often true that by the time someone gets out that they have stopped living the standards but that is a symptom of unbelief in most cases not the underlying cause of why they think they should go, which again makes no sense at all if they still believe on any level.

I think it is natural for many church members to simply think, we all know the church is true so THAT can't be the reason they left, it has to be that they are weak or unworthy. I don't think that view holds up very well when you look at it closely.

When I was at the MTC as a missionary, we were at one of the weekly LGMs listening to the speaker talk about his mission. I remember he shared something that has stuck with me to this day and is actually very on-point to this thread.

This speaker said that whenever he would encounter ex-Mos on his mission (I assume he meant the antagonistic ones), he would always ask them one question...."Which one was it?" His question was always met with confusion. He explained that he would then clarify...."Which one of the commandments could you not live?"

I guess his point was that an ex-Mo is such because he or she simply cannot live all the commandments, so they give up and get bitter. Such a B/W view of things made a load of sense to me at the time. Fortunately, I have since landed in Oz and my world has grown much more colorful, but I definitely used to think that way. I would guess that many LDS think that way about ex-Mos.

[Indy Coug]

Logically, in most cases there would be a gradual process where at some point you would be unable to truthfully answer at least a couple of the temple recommend questions (eg. the sustaining question) prior to your eventual separation from the faith.

[byu71]

One could easily ask a member, do you believe because you live the lifestyle?

[UtahDan]

I'm part of the 5%. Loud and Proud!

World population= 6,770,000,000. LDS population: 13,500,000.

You are part of approximately one fifth of one percent. That is a much more elite group!!

[SeattleUte]

World population= 6,770,000,000. LDS population: 13,500,000.

You are part of approximately one fifth of one percent. That is a much more elite group!!

Thank you. I knew I was being generous. But I think you need to use active members. Also, in fairness, not all the world's population has been exposed to Mormonism. So, maybe you're one half of one percent is the most accurate available estimate.

[TripletDaddy]

World population= 6,770,000,000. LDS population: 13,500,000.

You are part of approximately one fifth of one percent. That is a much more elite group!!

Woohoo! Even cooler!

Go Zoramites!