Yahoo: "Mormon Mom Who Fought For Prop 8 Now Fights for Gay Son"

[Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

http://gma.yahoo.com/mormon-mom-fought-prop-8-now-fights-gay-043343153--abc-news-health.html

[jay santos]

That's a good mom.

[grapevine]

If someone's son had a vicious temper or liked to drink or smoke should the parents support that? The Lord himself cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Gary and Millie Watts in Provo same way. Tolerance means being civil to those you disagree with. Sin is still sin if you commit it. If we tolerated sin there would be no repentance. BRM in Modoc under psychiatry mentioned people saying there is nothing wrong with something would keep them from repenting.

For people with a tendency toward sins help them not commit them and repent not condone them so they don't repent and stay away from Celestial Kingdom. Our Heavenly Parents only give us commandments for our benefits. If you have inclination toward sin don't act on it. Need to be civil to those you disagree with. But we don't need to condone things that are wrong.

[wuapinmon]

grapevine, we tolerate your bigotry, which is a sin.

[LeedsCougar]

If someone's son had a vicious temper or liked to drink or smoke should the parents support that? The Lord himself cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Gary and Millie Watts in Provo same way. Tolerance means being civil to those you disagree with. Sin is still sin if you commit it. If we tolerated sin there would be no repentance. BRM in Modoc under psychiatry mentioned people saying there is nothing wrong with something would keep them from repenting.

For people with a tendency toward sins help them not commit them and repent not condone them so they don't repent and stay away from Celestial Kingdom. Our Heavenly Parents only give us commandments for our benefits. If you have inclination toward sin don't act on it. Need to be civil to those you disagree with. But we don't need to condone things that are wrong.

Can you please define what is "wrong" in this case?

[clackamascoug]

grapevine, we tolerate your bigotry, which is a sin.

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[jay santos]

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In another dimension, what you, Grape and BRM say on this subject might be really compelling. In this dimension, it's offensive as hell.

[ERCougar]

grapevine, we tolerate your bigotry, which is a sin.

No harsh vibe here--just an appropriate response to a wrongheaded post.

I love grape, in that he's unabashedly honest. He doesn't care about being PC or even sensitive. What he does care about is being doctrinally accurate, or at least defensible, and I would thus think his posts would be jarring or disconcerting to an orthodox Mormon. He reveals Mormonism at its core, without all of the modern concessions and whitewashing that modern Mormons tend to do. None of this "well, he wasn't speaking as a prophet then" or "that's just his (a chosen mouthpiece and apostle of God) opinion". If you don't like what he's saying, don't take it up with grape--take it up with God's Church.

[Uncle Ted]

When Texas was creating their marriage definition law we had a special combined meeting in which our high councilor spoke about how we should support by organizing bus loads of people going to Austin, etc. A man, who was a former bishop, stood up and told everyone that what we were planning to do was wrong. He has a son who had announced he was gay and this man was very much in support of him. He stated that everyone had their agency, "and men are, that they might have joy" and it wasn't our place to take that away. He said we were doing wasn't what Jesus would do. You could tell this man really loved his son. This story reminded me of that special combined meeting that I will always remember. I never saw that man in church again.

[Topper]

When Texas was creating their marriage definition law we had a special combined meeting in which our high councilor spoke about how we should support by organizing bus loads of people going to Austin, etc. A man, who was a former bishop, stood up and told everyone that what we were planning to do was wrong. He has a son who had announced he was gay and this man was very much in support of him. He stated that everyone had their agency, "and men are, that they might have joy" and it wasn't our place to take that away. He said we were doing wasn't what Jesus would do. You could tell this man really loved his son. This story reminded me of that special combined meeting that I will always remember. I never saw that man in church again.

Serious question:

Given the attitudes of conservative religious persons in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, doesn't that go a long way disproving religion altogether?

The written script is fairly blunt in its condemnation of homosexual behavior, despite what modern science seems to indicate.

[grapevine]

Can someone make a law against burning if you touch a hot stove so you don't get burned, Freezing if you don't put on a coat because you don't like to wear one or running in the street. My kids like to do that so they shouldn't have to suffer for it. As Boyd said what good would a law against gravity do? Marlin Jensen, Dallin Oaks addressed the issue of SSA before too. Thing is you will be miserable if you don't keep the commandments no matter if people say it is ok or not. Same as you will fall if there is nothing under you. BOM repeatedly says you can't have joy in iniquity.

In the manuel of Brigham Young we used to read said that he had a sharp temper but kept it in check. You can't please God without offending the Devil who is only interested in our misery and as long as we defend traditional marriage will always be people calling us bigots and the like. Jesus was tempted but yielded not unto them. ETB said Pride is people wish God would agree with them rather than them agreeing with God. For person that thought he knew what Jesus would do how did he know, Did he speak to him? Jesus gets plenty of words put in his mouth.

Tolerance of sin gives people an excuse not to repent. People who overcome all things are heirs of the Celestial Kingdom. I heard GA's almost in tears over people with same gender attraction, Thing is like Neal said last conference don't yield and things will all work out.

[Maximus]

No harsh vibe here--just an appropriate response to a wrongheaded post.

I love grape, in that he's unabashedly honest. He doesn't care about being PC or even sensitive. What he does care about is being doctrinally accurate, or at least defensible, and I would thus think his posts would be jarring or disconcerting to an orthodox Mormon. He reveals Mormonism at its core, without all of the modern concessions and whitewashing that modern Mormons tend to do. None of this "well, he wasn't speaking as a prophet then" or "that's just his (a chosen mouthpiece and apostle of God) opinion". If you don't like what he's saying, don't take it up with grape--take it up with God's Church.

Oh brother. I guess I forgot you are the authority on all things mormon. Good thing what you whine about isnt actually what mormonism is at its core.

[clackamascoug]

In another dimension, what you, Grape and BRM say on this subject might be really compelling. In this dimension, it's offensive as hell.

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[Jeff Lebowski]

Clack, you might just want to tap out at this point. Yikes.

[ERCougar]

Oh brother. I guess I forgot you are the authority on all things mormon. Good thing what you whine about isnt actually what mormonism is at its core.

I'm just pointing out that there is nothing that grape has posted that isn't completely supported by innumerable writings from LDS sources pretty high up in the chain of command on the subject, up to and including the current time. Maybe you've got something to counter that?