Excuses for crazy statements by church leaders

[Moliere]

Not sure if this thread is a good idea, but that's never stopped me before.

At the end of the day, the church has just been flat our wrong in many situations but it tends to avoid claiming responsibility. The closest I've seen in my lifetime of the church taking responsibility was when Elder Jensen apologized for prop 8. That was pretty cool. But there are plenty of situations where the church was wrong but they (meaning the brethren, correlation committee or local leaders) found a convenient excuse to not have to admit they were wrong. So here's my list off the top of my head:

• Operating with limited light when the negro doctrine was reversed - still don't understand this one as it seems to say that God doesn't reveal everything that should be revealed...but whatever.
• He's not the prophet - this one is usually used for crazy statements by apostles, who we apparently sustain as prophets, seers, revelators but only when they don't say crazy things
• He wasn't speaking as a prophet - I especially love this one when people are dodging a crazy statement made in GC. I mean, if he's not speaking as a prophet during GC then when is he speaking as a prophet?

Others?

[ERCougar]

The body of the church wasn't ready for the truth. I've heard this with the Priesthood ban.

Incidentally, #3 was the beginning of the end for me. "Not speaking as the prophet" was my fallback for so many years, until I realized that some of the crazy stuff was over the pulpit, during GC. I couldn't go that extra step. That was actually a good spiritual step for me, but it did represent a significant turning point in my relationship with the organization.

[Eddie]

I have to admit that I'm curious sometimes as to when someone is speaking something that has been revealed to them versus when someone is speaking something that is an opinion they have formed based on their study of whatever the topic happens to be.

Not to throw any gas on the fire - but there's also the whole "The Lord will never allow the prophet to lead the people astray. He would remove the prophet from the earth first." You know, the idea that God would strike a prophet dead before allowing him to lead the people astray.

Which leads me to ask - what are the deal breakers for God, and what are the things that are OK for folks to think about or believe and really have no impact on what God is doing. So he doesn't care if you form your own opinion - it isn't important enough or critical to spiritual development so he isn't going to waste any time on it. (Like where is Kolob or why are there dinosaur bones, etc.)

[Jarid in Cedar]

Which leads me to ask - what are the deal breakers for God, and what are the things that are OK for folks to think about or believe and really have no impact on what God is doing. So he doesn't care if you form your own opinion - it isn't important enough or critical to spiritual development so he isn't going to waste any time on it. (Like where is Kolob or why are there dinosaur bones, etc.)

I think a list of the latter would absolutely dwarf a list of the former. I do think that many people elevate issues from the latter to the former. I am also perplexed as to how many people subjugate their own thoughts on the later as well.

[Sullyute]

Are there really that many crazy quotes from sitting prophets at general conference in the last 100 years? I would guess most of the advice given under that criteria is probably pretty sound.

[Indy Coug]

Are there really that many crazy quotes from sitting prophets at general conference in the last 100 years? I would guess most of the advice given under that criteria is probably pretty sound.

If they are the only quotes that show up in this forum, you can create the illusion that there are.

[Moliere]

Are there really that many crazy quotes from sitting prophets at general conference in the last 100 years? I would guess most of the advice given under that criteria is probably pretty sound.

Ah, good one. Lets add "the prophet said that a long time ago so its not really applicable today" to the list

[scottie]

I was starting to respond with "Excuses for crazy actions by church leaders..." by quoting the church's intro to D&C 132. What do you know -- it's been changed...

It used to read:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

It now reads:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, evidence indicates that some of the principles involved in this revelation were known by the Prophet as early as 1831.

[Tone Loc]

This forum is group therapy for apostates. If you really don't believe anymore why can't you leave it alone and walk away? Are you concerned about the believers eternal souls? If so, what alternative path would you suggest for them?

[Sullyute]

I guess you could also add, "They are human and they make mistakes."

[ERCougar]

This forum is group therapy for apostates. If you really don't believe anymore why can't you leave it alone and walk away? Are you concerned about the believers eternal souls? If so, what alternative path would you suggest for them?

Because we all have loved ones who are directly affected. In this case, my daughter--I'm not concerned about her eternal welfare but I'm very interested in the messages she hears at church.

[SoCalCoug]

I guess you could also add, "They are human and they make mistakes."

Sure. But it's tough to rationalize when they make mistakes on church policy and doctrine, or things that they should know through inspiration or revelation.

[Harry Tic]

This forum is group therapy for apostates. If you really don't believe anymore why can't you leave it alone and walk away? Are you concerned about the believers eternal souls? If so, what alternative path would you suggest for them?

You set the bar for apostasy pretty low. I hope you're not in a position of leadership.

This board is full of people across the faith spectrum, so it's unclear who you're talking to. Not to mention unhelpful.

[Tone Loc]

Because we all have loved ones who are directly affected. In this case, my daughter--I'm not concerned about her eternal welfare but I'm very interested in the messages she hears at church.

Wait a minute. You have discovered that its all a bunch of crap and you dont pull your daughter out of it because you are interested in the messages she hears at church? You have an obligation to her to let her know that it is a pack of lies, man up. Look at your own life and how much nonsense you could have avoided if you found out earlier.

[ERCougar]

Wait a minute. You have discovered that its all a bunch of crap and you dont pull your daughter out of it because you are interested in the messages she hears at church? You have an obligation to her to let her know that it is a pack of lies, man up. Look at your own life and how much nonsense you could have avoided if you found out earlier.

where did I say it was all a bunch of crap? or a pack of lies? or called anything nonsense?

I'm pretty happy with my life and my involvement the church deserves a lot of that credit. the better question is why do you care that i care?