Elizabeth Smart & Chewing Gum

[Non Sequitur]

If you take the position that the meaning of words remain perpetually static and that translated words have perfect one-to-one mappings from one language to another....

Dang. I could have gone on my mission a year earlier if I had simply pointed out to my Bishop that the meaning of the word chastity was not perpetually static.

[Eddie]

You don't have to be a needle neck to know what Moroni is saying.

But do you have to not be a needle neck to know what he is meaning?

[Indy Coug]

You don't have to be a needle neck to know what Moroni is saying.

If you take the position that the meaning of words remain perpetually static and that translated words have perfect one-to-one mappings from one language to another....

[Non Sequitur]

Maybe one or more of the resident needlenecks could elucidate on possible changes to the popular meaning of "virtue" between circa 1830 and 2013. We could have a gay old time learning about our mother tongue.

You don't have to be a needle neck to know what Moroni is saying.

[Indy Coug]

So what would happen to these girls that didn't pass the test?

I honestly don't know. I just have a vague recollection of reading about cultures that used to do (still do?) this. My guess is that it probably prevented marriages from happening.

[RC Vikings]

How many cultures still do a hymen check before marriage?

So what would happen to these girls that didn't pass the test?

[Indy Coug]

Except that the scripture doesn't say loss of innocence...it says loss of virtue, which means that when someone is raped they are no longer virtuous.

Maybe one or more of the resident needlenecks could elucidate on possible changes to the popular meaning of "virtue" between circa 1830 and 2013. We could have a gay old time learning about our mother tongue.

[Non Sequitur]

I guess maybe I'm just naive or perhaps not as sensitive as some - but the Moroni verses don't bother me. I think it is in the perception and feel of how they are taught and applied, as I'm not stuck on the actual technical verbiage used. I never took those versus to mean that the gals assaulted by the Lamanites had sinned or were unclean in any way. I viewed it more along the lines of a loss of innocence (please don't be confused and believe that my intent is to say they are not innocent).

I think it is naive to think that something isn't taken from rape victims. I understand the difficulty in expressing/explaining what exactly that is. And I could see someone fumbling over words and being misunderstood in attempting to do so. But I tend to believe that very few people (if any) place any blame on the victim or believe them to be sinners or lacking virtue.

Except that the scripture doesn't say loss of innocence...it says loss of virtue, which means that when someone is raped they are no longer virtuous.

[Soccermom]

That's how I always read it too.

I never gave it a lot of thought, never had the actual chewed gum/licked cupcake lesson, but definitely would have felt the same as Elizabeth Smart in her situation based on how chastity was presented to me growing up. That's because I got the Kimball quote about one being better off dying than having their virtue taken from them in a rape.

[Indy Coug]

I never took those versus to mean that the gals assaulted by the Lamanites had sinned or were unclean in any way. I viewed it more along the lines of a loss of innocence (please don't be confused and believe that my intent is to say they are not innocent).

That's how I always read it too.

[Eddie]

I guess maybe I'm just naive or perhaps not as sensitive as some - but the Moroni verses don't bother me. I think it is in the perception and feel of how they are taught and applied, as I'm not stuck on the actual technical verbiage used. I never took those versus to mean that the gals assaulted by the Lamanites had sinned or were unclean in any way. I viewed it more along the lines of a loss of innocence (please don't be confused and believe that my intent is to say they are not innocent).

I think it is naive to think that something isn't taken from rape victims. I understand the difficulty in expressing/explaining what exactly that is. And I could see someone fumbling over words and being misunderstood in attempting to do so. But I tend to believe that very few people (if any) place any blame on the victim or believe them to be sinners or lacking virtue.

[byu71]

How many cultures still do a hymen check before marriage?

I would guess Orthodox Muslims and Jews, but I don't know for sure.

[Indy Coug]

How many cultures still do a hymen check before marriage?

[byu71]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ng-kidnappers/

In Moroni 9:9, as I interpret it, it looks like he says rape victims are no longer chaste or virtuous. Get with it Moroni. It's 2013 for Pete's sake.

Perhaps the verse should be read to some very religious girls. I am not saying this is a problem that exists with just our faith.

Some girls would rather tell parents and even the cops they were raped than admit they participated willingly in sex out of wedlock.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Here is an article ripping on Moroni 9:9:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/56274568-180/church-smart-haglund-virtue.html.csp