Elizabeth Smart & Chewing Gum

[LA Ute]

How is the thread misbegotten? So what if the teacher told her the gum story? Where do you think the teacher got the gum story from?

The post that started the thread linked to a Washington Post piece saying that Elizabeth Smart didn't try to escape because of Mormon teachings on sex. It turned out, when we saw the video, that she didn't say that. That's all I'm saying. No criticism intended. Things get misreported in the early stages all the time.

[Indy Coug]

How is the thread misbegotten? So what if the teacher told her the gum story? Where do you think the teacher got the gum story from?

I just hope you've had the opportunity to punch someone in the neck sometime in the last couple of weeks.

[The Fourth Nephite]

Even though, as Eddie notes, this thread was a little misbegotten, it did help me see that we need to talk a lot more about gold coins and never about chewed gum or licked cupcakes. Never.

How is the thread misbegotten? So what if the teacher told her the gum story? Where do you think the teacher got the gum story from?

[All-American]

In a freakonomics podcast on spite they relate the story of 900 AD Nuns cutting off their nose so they wont be raped and thus can still have their chasity in place.

Hence the term.

[Mormon Red Death]

I commented specifically on the meaning of the word "virtue", and - like you - I don't believe that the word carried a sense of sexual purity in the early 1800s. On the other hand, I think it's quite clear that Moroni 9.9 says that chastity and virtue (or "honor", if you will) are more important than life itself (for women).

I'm having a really hard time understanding why people are defending this. Can't believers just say that "Moroni lived over a thousand years ago. This is a common idea from ancient times that women's "honor" stemmed from their sexual purity. Thank goodness we know better now." - and leave it at that?

The rest is just jumbled BS.

In a freakonomics podcast on spite they relate the story of 900 AD Nuns cutting off their nose so they wont be raped and thus can still have their chasity in place.

[myboynoah]

Yeah, one is hard and the other is soft

Exactly!

[LA Ute]

That's a sticky piece of candy. Big difference.

Just in case anyone's wondering about the 1999 Ensign bit:

I shared my own favorite object lesson. Nearly 40 years earlier a bishop’s counselor passed a clean, new piece of candy around a group of deacons. Then he offered the handled and somewhat sticky piece of candy to anyone who wanted to eat it. No one did. This wise teacher challenged us to remember the lesson when we were old enough to begin dating. We needed to keep ourselves morally clean and to respect our dates. It was a lesson on chastity I never forgot.

Well, that ought to be good for another 300 posts or so.

I personally dislike comparing young people to food or anything yucky or dirty in the context of chastity. I'd rather give it to them straight: You'll be happier if you keep the law of chastity. If you don't you can repent and be clean, but it's isn't easy and it is spiritually dangerous to violate that law intentionally, with plans to repent later; many who do so have a very hard time repenting.

From For the Strength of Youth:

Physical intimacy between husband and wife is beautiful and sacred. It is ordained of God for the creation of children and for the expression of love between husband and wife. God has commanded that sexual intimacy be reserved for marriage. When you are sexually pure, you prepare yourself to make and keep sacred covenants in the temple. You prepare yourself to build a strong marriage and to bring children into the world as part of an eternal and loving family. You protect yourself from the spiritual and emotional damage that come from sharing sexual intimacy outside of marriage. You also protect yourself from harmful diseases. Remaining sexually pure helps you to be confident and truly happy and improves your ability to make good decisions now and in the future.

The Lord’s standard regarding sexual purity is clear and unchanging. Do not have any sexual relations before marriage, and be completely faithful to your spouse after marriage. Do not allow the media, your peers, or others to persuade you that sexual intimacy before marriage is acceptable. It is not.

In God’s sight, sexual sins are extremely serious. They defile the sacred power God has given us to create life. The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5).

Never do anything that could lead to sexual transgression. Treat others with respect, not as objects used to satisfy lustful and selfish desires. Before marriage, do not participate in passionate kissing, lie on top of another person, or touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body, with or without clothing. Do not do anything else that arouses sexual feelings. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body.
Pay attention to the promptings of the Spirit so that you can be clean and virtuous. The Spirit of the Lord will withdraw from one who is in sexual transgression.

Avoid situations that invite increased temptation, such as late-night or overnight activities away from home or activities where there is a lack of adult supervision. Do not participate in discussions or any media that arouse sexual feelings. Do not participate in any type of pornography. The Spirit can help you know when you are at risk and give you the strength to remove yourself from the situation. Have faith in and be obedient to the righteous counsel of your parents and leaders....

Victims of sexual abuse are not guilty of sin and do not need to repent. If you have been a victim of abuse, know that you are innocent and that God loves you. Talk to your parents or another trusted adult, and seek your bishop’s counsel immediately. They can support you spiritually and assist you in getting the protection and help you need. The process of healing may take time. Trust in the Savior. He will heal you and give you peace.

If you are tempted to commit any form of sexual transgression, seek help from your parents and bishop. Pray to your Father in Heaven, who will help you resist temptation and overcome inappropriate thoughts and feelings. If you have committed sexual transgression, talk to your bishop now and begin the process of repentance so that you can find peace and have the full companionship of the Spirit.

Make a personal commitment to be sexually pure. By your words and actions, encourage others to do the same.

FTSOY is not a lesson manual; it's for individual and family guidance. Still, it's pretty straight stuff. Not everyone here's going to approve of it, but at least it is clear and doctrinal, and it doesn't compare young people to a cupcake or gum or candy.

[Moliere]

That's a sticky piece of candy. Big difference.

Yeah, one is hard and the other is soft

[myboynoah]

Here is an article promoting the chewing gum object lesson on lds.org:

https://www.lds.org/liahona/1999/03/object-lessons-that-motivate?lang=eng

(scroll to the bottom)

That's a sticky piece of candy. Big difference.

[myboynoah]

Neither have I. Anyone who uses it in an LDS setting out to be drowned in jello.

I'd never heard the chewed gum or licked cupcake story either, but I have heard the fly (or something else very gross) in a brownie or something like that as an analogy for not watching "movies that are great, except for that one part." So I have no doubt that chewed gum and licked cupcakes analogies have been used numerous times, and not just in Utah public schools. I doubt they'll be used all that much any more, and for good reason. We tried and failed with those.

I like your gold coin story, but it sounds too expensive.

[Eddie]

You know, this makes sense, this could be the one I'm remembering.

But it also illustrates why it may not be a good analogy, because you're not accounting for some dumbass who only remembers part of the analogy.

I actually remember it being a bad analogy that someone corrected - which isn't to say that it wasn't a bad analogy getting passed around before it was corrected. There are certainly better ones.

[SoCalCoug]

I haven't heard anything about rusty nails. But I do seem to recall someone telling a story about every sin (not just the sexual variety) was like hammering a nail into a clean, new board. The story may have even included a farmer or farmer's kid hammering nails into a board every time he sinned as a reminder. Then he learned about repentance and learned that as he repented the sins would go away - so he would pull out the nails. He showed someone all of his work to remove all of the old nails, and their response was something along the lines of "yeah, but when you repent there aren't any holes left. You are completely whole and new and God doesn't even remember the sin - so you shouldn't either". Or something like that.

Maybe I'm missing something - but I don't remember a story about a board and nails being specific to sex/chastity. And I do remember the moral of the story being that simply removing nails from the board was not a good analogy for repentance because the holes remained. I certainly don't ever recall that being used to talk about rape/abuse.

You know, this makes sense, this could be the one I'm remembering.

But it also illustrates why it may not be a good analogy, because you're not accounting for some dumbass who only remembers part of the analogy.

[Eddie]

I have never heard the rusty nail story.

True story.

I haven't heard anything about rusty nails. But I do seem to recall someone telling a story about every sin (not just the sexual variety) was like hammering a nail into a clean, new board. The story may have even included a farmer or farmer's kid hammering nails into a board every time he sinned as a reminder. Then he learned about repentance and learned that as he repented the sins would go away - so he would pull out the nails. He showed someone all of his work to remove all of the old nails, and their response was something along the lines of "yeah, but when you repent there aren't any holes left. You are completely whole and new and God doesn't even remember the sin - so you shouldn't either". Or something like that.

Maybe I'm missing something - but I don't remember a story about a board and nails being specific to sex/chastity. And I do remember the moral of the story being that simply removing nails from the board was not a good analogy for repentance because the holes remained. I certainly don't ever recall that being used to talk about rape/abuse.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Here is an article promoting the chewing gum object lesson on lds.org:

https://www.lds.org/liahona/1999/03/object-lessons-that-motivate?lang=eng

(scroll to the bottom)

[LA Ute]

I have never heard the rusty nail story.

True story.

Neither have I. Anyone who uses it in an LDS setting out to be drowned in jello.