Women to Pray at General Conference

[Indy Coug]

UVACoug, you're wasting your time in this echo chamber.

[UVACoug]

Back to the main topic:

Has anyone ever done any research on the doctrinal source for the idea that only men should have the priesthood? I can not think of anything that says women will never have the priesthood. I have never really thought that women would ever have the priesthood because I just assumed it was a doctrinal issue, but I am not aware of any scriptural or other source for that premise.

On another note, what would happen if President Monson came out at General Conference and said that the Aaronic and Melchezidech Priesthood are inherently reserved for men, and that women would never receive the priesthood. Would people here accept that? Would you think he was just a crazy old sexist man?

[UVACoug]

UVACoug, you're wasting your time in this echo chamber.

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

[scottie]

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

Don't listen to Indy -- the echo chamber-ness of CUF/CS has never kept him from wasting his time here.

EDIT: That was mean, should have said, Don't listen to Indy -- the echo chamber-ness of CUF/CS has never kept him from sharing his alternate viewpoints.

[Indy Coug]

He's new here so I wanted to allow him to make an informed decision about wasting his time.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

Ignore Indy's comment. You are doing fine.

[CardiacCoug]

What happens when you get married to your gay partner? You frustrate your own salvation. You preclude any opportunity to procreate. It undermines the very essence of the plan of salvation. Is some satisfaction in this life worth giving all that up?

So what you think an LDS family man/Priesthood leader should say to a gay LDS person is: Families are forever and are a huge source of joy. I love my wife and kids and they mean everything to me. You can't ever have these things and in fact your desire to have these things with somebody of the same gender to whom you are attracted is evil and should be suppressed. You're not going to ever have sex, ever have a life partner, ever have children. I know this is a sacrifice for you but trust me it will all work out in the next life, that's how this Plan of Salvation works. Trust me.

What I would say to that gay person: There is nothing wrong with you. You can make your life every bit as satisfying and as wonderful as anyone else. Go find a life partner with whom you can share the joys and sorrows of this life. Go adopt some orphans with that partner and it will be an incredible source of joy and fulfillment for you. Don't let anybody tell you you are abnormal or sinful. Nobody really knows what if anything awaits us after this life so be happy right now. Make your life as good as it can be!

[wuapinmon]

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

[CardiacCoug]

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

Nobody is trying to shut you down. There are plenty of people here who agree with you and just aren't typing because 1. it's late and 2. we've been through all this a few [dozen] times already over the years.

[smokymountainrain]

He's new here so I wanted to allow him to make an informed decision about wasting his time.

He's posting on an internet message board. If he doesn't realize he's wasting his time without your warning, he's already a lost cause.

[UVACoug]

So what you think an LDS family man/Priesthood leader should say to a gay LDS person is: Families are forever and are a huge source of joy. I love my wife and kids and they mean everything to me. You can't ever have these things and in fact your desire to have these things with somebody of the same gender to whom you are attracted is evil and should be suppressed. You're not going to ever have sex, ever have a life partner, ever have children. I know this is a sacrifice for you but trust me it will all work out in the next life, that's how this Plan of Salvation works. Trust me.

What I would say to that gay person: There is nothing wrong with you. You can make your life every bit as satisfying and as wonderful as anyone else. Go find a life partner with whom you can share the joys and sorrows of this life. Go adopt some orphans with that partner and it will be an incredible source of joy and fulfillment for you. Don't let anybody tell you you are abnormal or sinful. Nobody really knows what if anything awaits us after this life so be happy right now. Make your life as good as it can be!

No, I wouldn't say either of those things. I would teach them the plan of salvation and then let them decide how they want to live their life. I would let them choose whether they want to embrace the gospel with the hope of eternal reward or reject it as something that can't really be known and embrace a lifestyle that would bring immediate satisfaction. I would treat them like adult human beings and not try to coerce them in one direction or the other. That doesn't mean I wouldn't share what I believe and why I believe it with the hope that they would find the same satisfaction in that that I do.

[UVACoug]

Nobody is trying to shut you down. There are plenty of people here who agree with you and just aren't typing because 1. it's late and 2. we've been through all this a few [dozen] times already over the years.

I know. I was being somewhat facetious. I appreciate your willingness to discuss the issue with me. I apologize if I offended you at all. I can come off a little too snarky at times.

[myboynoah]

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

That made me smile, UVaC.

[jay santos]

This is my understanding of the doctrinal implications. Marriage is eternal. God has commanded that men and women cleave unto each and become one flesh. One of the results of that is procreation. Procreation and families are not a nice incidence of marriage. They are the purpose of marriage. They are the purpose of the gospel. Men and women compliment each other, and you can't achieve exaltation without being in an eternal marriage. I think the implications of the power to procreate go far beyond anything we understand in this world. Fatherhood and motherhood are an essential part of the plan of salvation.

What happens when you get married to your gay partner? You frustrate your own salvation. You preclude any opportunity to procreate. It undermines the very essence of the plan of salvation. Is some satisfaction in this life worth giving all that up?

I agree that you have the logic straight as to why gay sex and marriage is against the rules. And I think the first paragraph is maybe a little offensive to gays, but oh well, a society has to be built on some rules and this is not a bad one. But the second paragraph is where I think you overstate the argument. The second paragraph holds an assumption that gay people should try to change to be straight so they can get married and have kids. Over time that logic is going to be completely torn apart until it's nothing but an ignorant remnant of the 20th century. I think this whole gay thing is going to get straightened out and be seen for what it is. It's not a trend where humans are going to start preferring gay sex over hetero marriage. It's an anomaly that occurs in a certain small percentage of humans, and we need to learn how to deal with it. Gay marriage will not be seen as overturning the plan of salvation. We'll have decades of research to see that gay people don't successfully make good hetero marriage partners. We'll give up on that at some point. So the question becomes do we keep churning gay people out and calling them sinners or do we what seems more civil and invite them to be part of the church?

[Harry Tic]

I figured that was the case. Still learning my way around here. I was told that this was generally a place where alternate viewpoints were tolerated. I didn't realize that meant that ONLY alternative viewpoints were tolerated.

Don't let the veterans around here play with your mind. Some members of CS earn a pretty nice living bitching and moaning about how their viewpoints aren't respected. It's a Chicago Cubs kind of thing.

Tip: just don't correct anyone's grammar. All hell will break loose.