This Is My Doctrine: The Development of Mormon Theology

[Moliere]

SU asks a hard question that deserves to be asked and not dismissed. How is it possible to self-identify as a believing Mormon once one has recognized that many of our cherished narratives are problematic? Truth be told, SU's perspective is not too far from the way that many, many church leaders have articulated the problem (most recently, GBH): either it's all true or it isn't. That kind of disjunction is fine for both your average butt-in-the-pews member and the garden-variety apostate looking for a way to feel good about their exodus, even when it obviously continues to nag at them. But, for a growing class of church members it's not accurate or satisfying. And not just thoughtful members of the LDS church. Anyone that wants to take religious phenomena seriously (and not from a crude, positivistic standpoint) has to acknowledge that every religious system is a jerry-rigged and clumsy attempt to come to grips with the divine. But it doesn't follow that there is nothing divine there which requires articulation.

I asked myself this question as I drove past the very large Methodist church on my way to the stake center.

[Harry Tic]

I asked myself this question as I drove past the very large Methodist church on my way to the stake center.

They have their own problematic narratives. Ours are more interesting.

[Jeff Lebowski]

ha, sorry. reading on my phone and I misread.

Dont apologize. Being confused with Solon is a great compliment.

[Donuthole]

Dont apologize. Being confused with Solon is a great compliment.

He was apologizing to Solon.

[Jeff Lebowski]

SU asks a hard question that deserves to be asked and not dismissed. How is it possible to self-identify as a believing Mormon once one has recognized that many of our cherished narratives are problematic? Truth be told, SU's perspective is not too far from the way that many, many church leaders have articulated the problem (most recently, GBH): either it's all true or it isn't. That kind of disjunction is fine for both your average butt-in-the-pews member and the garden-variety apostate looking for a way to feel good about their exodus, even when it obviously continues to nag at them. But, for a growing class of church members it's not accurate or satisfying. And not just thoughtful members of the LDS church. Anyone that wants to take religious phenomena seriously (and not from a crude, positivistic standpoint) has to acknowledge that every religious system is a jerry-rigged and clumsy attempt to come to grips with the divine. But it doesn't follow that there is nothing divine there which requires articulation.

Great post, Harry.

[Sleeping in EQ]

SU asks a hard question that deserves to be asked and not dismissed. How is it possible to self-identify as a believing Mormon once one has recognized that many of our cherished narratives are problematic? Truth be told, SU's perspective is not too far from the way that many, many church leaders have articulated the problem (most recently, GBH): either it's all true or it isn't. That kind of disjunction is fine for both your average butt-in-the-pews member and the garden-variety apostate looking for a way to feel good about their exodus, even when it obviously continues to nag at them. But, for a growing class of church members it's not accurate or satisfying. And not just thoughtful members of the LDS church. Anyone that wants to take religious phenomena seriously (and not from a crude, positivistic standpoint) has to acknowledge that every religious system is a jerry-rigged and clumsy attempt to come to grips with the divine. But it doesn't follow that there is nothing divine there which requires articulation.

As a board, we should have more discussions in this vein. I'll say more on another occasion, but these days I consider myself a Christian first and a Mormon second. My Mormonism has become a kind of mid-level appartus, kind of like an iron rod that has led me to the tree (and that I value), but that is no match for the tree and the fruit.

[smokymountainrain]

SU asks a hard question that deserves to be asked and not dismissed. How is it possible to self-identify as a believing Mormon once one has recognized that many of our cherished narratives are problematic? Truth be told, SU's perspective is not too far from the way that many, many church leaders have articulated the problem (most recently, GBH): either it's all true or it isn't. That kind of disjunction is fine for both your average butt-in-the-pews member and the garden-variety apostate looking for a way to feel good about their exodus, even when it obviously continues to nag at them. But, for a growing class of church members it's not accurate or satisfying. And not just thoughtful members of the LDS church. Anyone that wants to take religious phenomena seriously (and not from a crude, positivistic standpoint) has to acknowledge that every religious system is a jerry-rigged and clumsy attempt to come to grips with the divine. But it doesn't follow that there is nothing divine there which requires articulation.

I'm glad my dismissive comment led to your post above, but I want to go on record here - my comment was indeed tongue in cheek. I love SU. Always will.

[Moliere]

I'm glad my dismissive comment led to your post above, but I want to go on record here - my comment was indeed tongue in cheek. I love SU. Always will.

Charity never faileth...

[Solon]

Dont apologize. Being confused with Solon is a great compliment.

This is ER Coug's thinly veiled reminder that my wife owes him a pie.
Get in line, pal!

This book isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for an open-minded Mormon, although I imagine that the faithful reader will have some hard thinking to do (a good thing, right?).

[Northwestcoug]

SU asks a hard question that deserves to be asked and not dismissed. How is it possible to self-identify as a believing Mormon once one has recognized that many of our cherished narratives are problematic? Truth be told, SU's perspective is not too far from the way that many, many church leaders have articulated the problem (most recently, GBH): either it's all true or it isn't. That kind of disjunction is fine for both your average butt-in-the-pews member and the garden-variety apostate looking for a way to feel good about their exodus, even when it obviously continues to nag at them. But, for a growing class of church members it's not accurate or satisfying. And not just thoughtful members of the LDS church. Anyone that wants to take religious phenomena seriously (and not from a crude, positivistic standpoint) has to acknowledge that every religious system is a jerry-rigged and clumsy attempt to come to grips with the divine. But it doesn't follow that there is nothing divine there which requires articulation.

It's been awhile since I've gone to church, but I still keep in contact with a few ward members. But while I was still in making my way slowly out, I was kind of startled by a realization: there were many active members I could point to, knowing that church worship was not rewarding to them. They were there for a number of reasons: habit, a good place to raise kids, keep peace at home, job commitments. But you could tell that many of them just didn't want to be there. Maybe it is because the orthodoxy is not accurate nor satisfying, as you say.

Sometimes I think I could really get behind your 'messy' view of organized religion, that it's a crude and not a perfect way to access divine, but the divine is still there. But the problem I have staring me in the face every time I contemplate returning to an active belief is that the religion of my upbringing won't even let me consider some doctrines are incorrect, at least in an official forum. Of course I would be supported and loved by local members, and we could still enjoy regular comraderie. But I would definitely be on the outside if I were to share half the ideas Harrell brings up.

[Harry Tic]

It's been awhile since I've gone to church, but I still keep in contact with a few ward members. But while I was still in making my way slowly out, I was kind of startled by a realization: there were many active members I could point to, knowing that church worship was not rewarding to them. They were there for a number of reasons: habit, a good place to raise kids, keep peace at home, job commitments. But you could tell that many of them just didn't want to be there. Maybe it is because the orthodoxy is not accurate nor satisfying, as you say.

Sometimes I think I could really get behind your 'messy' view of organized religion, that it's a crude and not a perfect way to access divine, but the divine is still there. But the problem I have staring me in the face every time I contemplate returning to an active belief is that the religion of my upbringing won't even let me consider some doctrines are incorrect, at least in an official forum. Of course I would be supported and loved by local members, and we could still enjoy regular comraderie. But I would definitely be on the outside if I were to share half the ideas Harrell brings up.

I don't like the Sunday block. At all. I'm an HP now and it was just dawning on me yesterday that I have another probably another thirty or forty years' worth of incredibly inane--if not downright irritating--HP lessons looming ahead of me in the future. A depressing thought. The trouble is not really with the HP group per se. There are some very smart and highly educated members there. Certainly much smarter than I am. The problem is an insipid curriculum that is spiritually vacuous and social codes that inhibit us from speaking openly and honestly (although HP tends to be better than EQ, since some of the old dogs let it all hang out, as it were).

But I go because, well, in part because of all of the reasons you mentioned above. But, I also go because (1) it's my tribe and I'm loyal to it; (2) at its finest, it is a theologically vibrant religion, even if we do our best to look like all the other conservative Protestants around us; and (3) because I'm a lazy, misanthropic sod that would happily retreat into my own bubble if I could get away with it. But I have home teaching families that really need me and, by god, there are chairs that need to be stacked and sidewalks that need to be shoveled. I wish the three-hour block itself were more spiritually edifying. But then again, that is why God revealed to Steve Jobs the design of the iPad, worlds without end.

[Katy Lied]

But I go because, well, in part because of all of the reasons you mentioned above. But, I also go because (1) it's my tribe and I'm loyal to it; (2) at its finest, it is a theologically vibrant religion, even if we do our best to look like all the other conservative Protestants around us; and (3) because I'm a lazy, misanthropic sod that would happily retreat into my own bubble if I could get away with it. But I have home teaching families that really need me and, by god, there are chairs that need to be stacked and sidewalks that need to be shoveled. I wish the three-hour block itself were more spiritually edifying. But then again, that is why God revealed to Steve Jobs the design of the iPad, worlds without end.

All very good reasons, I think.

[Northwestcoug]

I don't like the Sunday block. At all. I'm an HP now and it was just dawning on me yesterday that I have another probably another thirty or forty years' worth of incredibly inane--if not downright irritating--HP lessons looming ahead of me in the future. A depressing thought. The trouble is not really with the HP group per se. There are some very smart and highly educated members there. Certainly much smarter than I am. The problem is an insipid curriculum that is spiritually vacuous and social codes that inhibit us from speaking openly and honestly (although HP tends to be better than EQ, since some of the old dogs let it all hang out, as it were).

But I go because, well, in part because of all of the reasons you mentioned above. But, I also go because (1) it's my tribe and I'm loyal to it; (2) at its finest, it is a theologically vibrant religion, even if we do our best to look like all the other conservative Protestants around us; and (3) because I'm a lazy, misanthropic sod that would happily retreat into my own bubble if I could get away with it. But I have home teaching families that really need me and, by god, there are chairs that need to be stacked and sidewalks that need to be shoveled. I wish the three-hour block itself were more spiritually edifying. But then again, that is why God revealed to Steve Jobs the design of the iPad, worlds without end.

All very good reasons, I think.

I agree. If people get more good than bad out of church, it usually doesn't make sense to stop going.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't like the Sunday block. At all. I'm an HP now and it was just dawning on me yesterday that I have another probably another thirty or forty years' worth of incredibly inane--if not downright irritating--HP lessons looming ahead of me in the future. A depressing thought. The trouble is not really with the HP group per se. There are some very smart and highly educated members there. Certainly much smarter than I am. The problem is an insipid curriculum that is spiritually vacuous and social codes that inhibit us from speaking openly and honestly (although HP tends to be better than EQ, since some of the old dogs let it all hang out, as it were).

But I go because, well, in part because of all of the reasons you mentioned above. But, I also go because (1) it's my tribe and I'm loyal to it; (2) at its finest, it is a theologically vibrant religion, even if we do our best to look like all the other conservative Protestants around us; and (3) because I'm a lazy, misanthropic sod that would happily retreat into my own bubble if I could get away with it. But I have home teaching families that really need me and, by god, there are chairs that need to be stacked and sidewalks that need to be shoveled. I wish the three-hour block itself were more spiritually edifying. But then again, that is why God revealed to Steve Jobs the design of the iPad, worlds without end.

Harry, we should start a sainthood movement for Steve Jobs for the iPad miracle and its impact on churchgoers everywhere. Let's get this baby rolling!

[Sullyute]

I've enjoyed this book. Thanks, Jeff. SU can go f*** himself.

After that rousing endorcement and all the other good things said on here I just dropped my order in for a copy. Looking forward to joining the cognoscenti in this thread.