New LDS Church Website: Mormons and Gays

[old_gregg]

LAU is right:



There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, "I hit my companion."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," he said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.



That gem of a talk alludes to mutual masturbation and straight young men being tempted to try homosexual acts. So there's certainly the allusion to gayness being a choice.

By the way, the pamphlet is still available on the church's website. That should tell all of us something.

and that's what happens when someone spends their whole life in ces/working for the church and has no idea what the real world is like.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I still have a copy that I found among some old boxes of stuff in our ward building. It seems to me he expressed approval of using violence to defend oneself against sexual advances if necessary, which is a little different from trying "to convert" someone. But still....

I'll see if I can find it.

A distinction without much of a difference.

Short of attempted rape (which I think would be extraordinarily rare between two missionaries), do you think it is appropriate to respond to a sexual advance with violence? Seriously? That missionary experienced guilt for good reason. And there is something extremely disconcerting about an apostle implying that he would have liked to have gotten in a few punches himself had he been given the chance.

It seems that the implicit message here is that those queers are trying to recruit the rest of us to their perverted state so we need to do everything we can to stop them. I don't recall seeing this response suggested for the heterosexual scenario.

[pellegrino]

I didn't hear that talk, nor did I ever read it. My bad, I guess. But I was looking not for a talk by one GA, but for an official position by the church on the matter that has now changed. I don't doubt that there is one, but I just don't know. It may be that the church heirarchy were just as clueless about the nature of gayness as most people have been, over the years.

LA Ute, you're a good man, and I like you, but responses like this and the one that preceded it . . .

[LA Ute]

LA Ute, you're a good man, and I like you, but responses like this and the one that preceded it . . .

I feel the same way about you and just about everyone here. But you must admit that there is a prevailing point of view here on CUF and little tolerance for anyone who tries to play devil's advocate. (Angel's advocate?) I think many here become so comfortable with the echo chamber that they can't imagine how any intelligent person can see an issue differently and perhaps have something valid to say. Will you guys own that?

A distinction without much of a difference.

Short of attempted rape (which I think would be extraordinarily rare between two missionaries), do you think it is appropriate to respond to a sexual advance with violence? Seriously? That missionary experienced guilt for good reason. And there is something extremely disconcerting about an apostle implying that he would have liked to have gotten in a few punches himself had he been given the chance.

It seems that the implicit message here is that those queers are trying to recruit the rest of us to their perverted state so we need to do everything we can to stop them. I don't recall seeing this response suggested for the heterosexual scenario.

You said BKP "advocated violence against gays if they try to convert you." That's not a fair characterization of what he said. I'm no fan of many of BKP's statements but it's important to be intellectually honest in describing them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You said BKP "advocated violence against gays if they try to convert you." That's not a fair characterization of what he said. I'm no fan of many of BKP's statements but it's important to be intellectually honest in describing them.

How is it not fair? Go back and read the first line of the quote:

There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

He is very clearly saying that gays recruit people to join them in gay sex and when they try to recruit you, you should beat the shit out of them.

On the other hand, maybe he only meant to be speaking to closeted gay mormons and was actually advocating gay-on-gay violence.

[LA Ute]

How is it not fair? Go back and read the first line of the quote:



He is very clearly saying that gays recruit people to join them in gay sex and when they try to recruit you, you should beat the shit out of them.

On the other hand, maybe he only meant to be speaking to closeted gay mormons and was actually advocating gay-on-gay violence.

I think there is a BKP obsession on this board.

[Indy Coug]

He is very clearly saying that gays recruit people to join them in gay sex and when they try to recruit you, you should beat the shit out of them.

On the other hand, maybe he only meant to be speaking to closeted gay mormons and was actually advocating gay-on-gay violence.

You get that out of "vigorously resist"? Bullshit. Stop straining so hard.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You get that out of "vigorously resist"? Bullshit. Stop straining so hard.

You obviously didn't read the full quote.

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpo...0&postcount=45

[Tone Loc]

There are some men who entice young women to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said she had something to confess. I was very worried because she just could not get herself to tell me what she had done.

After patient encouragement she finally blurted out, "I hit my district leader."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," she said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.

[Sullyute]

There are some men who entice young women to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said she had something to confess. I was very worried because she just could not get herself to tell me what she had done.

After patient encouragement she finally blurted out, "I hit my district leader."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," she said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.

Sounds like advice that I would give my daughter.

[Indy Coug]

I appreciate the efforts of the LDS church in creating the website you mentioned. Many of my Gay friends are a little offended by the site, but i'm not bothered in the least by it. After all...I view it, in part, as an effort to assure members that those of us that are Gay deserve love and respect.

My family has not reacted well to my coming out, but I try to give them a pass on that since it clearly is not an easy thing to accept. most of them will have absolutely nothing to do with me, but a few are starting to come around a little. I applaud the LDS church for their efforts, and Hope it will help the healing process to continue in my family.

While I have chosen to resign my membership, I still respect the church and have no desire to tear it down or criticize the decisions made by the leaders too much. i'm very grateful that the church has made positive adjustments in their approach with the Gay issue.

There is one thing I wish beyond anything they would do, but i'm not holding my breath for it to happen. Its not for me, but doing this one thing might really help my ex wife, and the many other Ex wives in the church. Hopefully one day they will see the need, but i'm happy they are making an effort.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...tml?id=9743005

[Non Sequitur]

Sounds like advice that I would give my daughter.

It's advice you give in cases of rape. Most girls that participate in lascivious acts are willing participants. Same goes for cases of gay.

[LA Ute]

There are some men who entice young women to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said she had something to confess. I was very worried because she just could not get herself to tell me what she had done.

After patient encouragement she finally blurted out, "I hit my district leader."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," she said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.

That sounds like advocating violence against heterosexual men who try to "convert" women.

[Indy Coug]

Being together 24/7, eating together, shopping together, sharing details of your lives together, sharing your darkest fears and your greatest aspirations, sleeping together wearing exotic underwear ..... SOMETHING'S GOTTA GIVE!

[Uncle Ted]

A few years prior and there is no way that part would have been redacted. In fact, BKP published a pamphlet (I think it was called "For Young Men Only") where be advocated violence against gays if they try to convert you. My mother gave me a copy as a youth. It was in circulation for many years.

Apparently the church still distributes it... (in electronic form)

http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared...g.pdf?lang=eng

I recall getting a copy from my mother and later laughing out loud the part about having wet dreams. Something about your body being a factory and having to release some of its product.