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New Terryl Givens book, "The God Who Weeps: How Mormonism Makes Sense of Life"

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  • New Terryl Givens book, "The God Who Weeps: How Mormonism Makes Sense of Life"

    I don't see a thread here on this yet, which kind of surprises me. Peggy Fletcher Stack writes about the new Givens book here.

    These are the "five central concepts in Mormon theology" that Givens focuses on in his book:

    • God is a personal entity, having a heart that beats in sympathy with human hearts, feeling our joy and sorrowing over our pain.
    • We lived as spiritual beings in the presence of God before we were born in this mortal life.
    • Mortality is an ascent, not a fall, and we carry infinite potential into a world of sin and sorrow.
    • God has the desire and the power to unite and elevate the entire human family in a kingdom of heaven, and, except for the most stubbornly unwilling, that will be our destiny.
    • Heaven will consist of those relationships that matter most to us now.
    Excerpt from Peggy's article:

    Indeed, it was Deseret Book’s paucity of deeper books about LDS beliefs that prompted the project in the first place.

    Last year, Terryl, a literature and religion professor at the University of Richmond, publicly criticized the LDS publishing arm for abandoning theology in favor of more chatty, anecdote-laden descriptions of Mormon teachings.

    Deseret Book CEO Sheri Dew heard about it, he says, and offered to publish such a book if he would write it.

    And now the book from Terryl and Fiona Givens is causing ripples of excitement throughout the Mormon intellectual community.

    "This is the single best book of Mormon studies that I have ever read," Julie M. Smith of Austin, Texas, wrote on the Mormon blog timesandseasons.org. "It is brilliant and marvelously well-written."

    In an email, Smith, who holds a master’s degree in biblical studies from the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, Calif., said, "After LDS doctrine, history, practice, and rhetoric go through the refiner’s fire, what is left is this book: a simply stunning articulation of everything that is luminous about Mormonism."

    Ben Park, an LDS doctoral candidate at University of Cambridge, echoes that sentiment.
    The co-authors "demonstrate the extraordinarily broad reach of Mormonism’s answers, the intellectually cogent possibilities of LDS thought and the compelling nature of Joseph Smith’s theological corpus," Park writes in an email from Boston, where he is spending this year. "Importantly, rather than just relying on the small canon of the LDS tradition, they reach further by showing how many theologians, philosophers and other figures can not only affirm what we already believe, but have much to teach us on these important issues. This is a book that all Mormons should not only read, but feel comfortable recommending to their friends."
    I want to read the book and am trying to decide whether to hint around for a Christmas present or just to buy it. I think I'll just buy it.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-27-2012, 03:04 PM.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  • #2
    How much is it. I've put a $15 limit on my gift for you this year.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

    Comment


    • #3
      Looks interesting. I'm curious how he treats point 1--specifically if he opens up the theodicy can of worms. The title implies that he must at least touch on it.

      Speaking of Terryl Givens, I read a talk by him last night while I was at work--highly recommended:
      http://terrylgivens.com/wp-content/u...o-by-Faith.pdf

      He hits on some interesting discussion points if anyone wants to read and discuss.
      At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
      -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
        How much is it. I've put a $15 limit on my gift for you this year.
        Kindle version is $9.99. I already bought it. But hey, $15 will buy a lot of Snickers bars. Just sayin'.
        “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
        ― W.H. Auden


        "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
        -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


        "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
        --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm teaching GD today on 3 Nephi, and my theme was the title of that Depeche Mode song, Personal Jesus.

          This thread will augment nicely.

          Comment


          • #6
            I had a long flight today to the East (right into the storm! ) and read about the first third of this book on the plane. I am really enjoying it, and hope that my reporting this fact does not ruin anyone's desire to read Givens' book.
            Last edited by LA Ute; 10-28-2012, 02:52 PM.
            “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
            ― W.H. Auden


            "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
            -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


            "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
            --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

            Comment


            • #7
              This book is fantastic. It makes thinking about Mormon theology interesting again. Easily my favorite Mormon-oriented book to come out in a long time.

              If anyone is interested in an intro to the book, mormonmatters did an interview with Fiona Givens recently. Worth it just to hear her very cool accent.

              Go buy this. You won't regret it.
              At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
              -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                This book is fantastic. It makes thinking about Mormon theology interesting again. Easily my favorite Mormon-oriented book to come out in a long time.

                If anyone is interested in an intro to the book, mormonmatters did an interview with Fiona Givens recently. Worth it just to hear her very cool accent.

                Go buy this. You won't regret it.
                I read it during our recent vacation and it was very enjoyable. I've used portions in teaching my weekly lesson.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                  This book is fantastic. It makes thinking about Mormon theology interesting again. Easily my favorite Mormon-oriented book to come out in a long time.

                  If anyone is interested in an intro to the book, mormonmatters did an interview with Fiona Givens recently. Worth it just to hear her very cool accent.

                  Go buy this. You won't regret it.
                  A much better endoresment than anything coming from LAU. Maybe I'll pick it up.
                  So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkGrace View Post
                    A much better endoresment than anything coming from LAU. Maybe I'll pick it up.
                    I hated the book. Don't read it! A bunch of progressive gobbledegook!
                    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                    ― W.H. Auden


                    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                      This book is fantastic. It makes thinking about Mormon theology interesting again. Easily my favorite Mormon-oriented book to come out in a long time.

                      If anyone is interested in an intro to the book, mormonmatters did an interview with Fiona Givens recently. Worth it just to hear her very cool accent.

                      Go buy this. You won't regret it.
                      People of Paradox remains one of my favorite Mormon studies books. He is a terrific author. His interview that so many people like was borderline annoying, to me, but as I say I love him as a writer. I'm sure I'll read this at some point.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                        I hated the book. Don't read it! A bunch of progressive gobbledegook!
                        Just ordered it
                        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                          Just ordered it
                          OK, I warned you. But I will pray for you still.
                          “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                          ― W.H. Auden


                          "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                          -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                          "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                          --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So there is plenty in this book to discuss but the idea that keeps drawing my thoughts is in Chapter 4, specifically his statement that "God has the desire and power to unite and elevate the entire human family in a kingdom of heaven, and, except for the most stubbornly unwilling, that will be our destiny." (emphasis added).

                            For those who haven't read the book, the reasoning is thus (I'm grossly paraphrasing--he and she are much better writers than I): In this life, we "see through a glass darkly", meaning we're trying to choose good without perfectly seeing its goodness (he does a fantastic job of developing this idea in another chapter). We're working with imperfect insights and views and a lack of experience. Repentance is a process of "redeciding" (I think this is the word he used?), in which we through our intentions return and with new insight/experience/love of God/etc, make a different decision than the original problematic one. God allows us to continue this process until eventually we completely choose goodness. In so doing, He never gives up. In other words, we never run out of chances until we completely reject Him, with a perfect knowledge of his goodness, something only very few are even capable of doing. We certainly don't run out of chances in this life, but Givens implies that we never run out of chances, until we stop taking them. Although he never explicitly states it, he seems to argue for a progression between kingdoms, an idea that has always appealed to me, and that to my knowledge, is compatible with scripture (and more importantly to me, reason).

                            I've brutalized the argument--they're far more eloquent--but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the idea. It's more appealing to me--I see so much useless guilt and anxiety among members (and myself) that seems to stem from this idea that God has given up on them, their sins are too great.
                            At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                            -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                            Comment

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