For those who dismiss the Book of Mormon, what's your explanation for it?

[scottie]

Regardless of how long it actually took to write (maybe it was ~75 days while he was dictating it, maybe it was 3+ years before it was dictated, or something), I've never understood what was so amazing or remarkable about the stories. Levin mentioned "minimal editing", but it contained no punctuation, little capitalization, and many spelling errors. If I sat down and dedicated time to write a story, copied word for word a bunch of stuff from the KJV, and added a lot of "And it came to pass...", I think I could maybe even do it.

[Levin]

Regardless of how long it actually took to write (maybe it was ~75 days while he was dictating it, maybe it was 3+ years before it was dictated, or something), I've never understood what was so amazing or remarkable about the stories. Levin mentioned "minimal editing", but it contained no punctuation, little capitalization, and many spelling errors. If I sat down and dedicated time to write a story, copied word for word a bunch of stuff from the KJV, and added a lot of "And it came to pass...", I think I could maybe even do it.

Then you've never truly written.

[scottie]

Then you've never truly written.

Have you read what Mark Twain said about the BOM?

[Levin]

To run further amok, James Joyce's Uylsses is a 50. The BoM is a 68 from the white tees on a public course.

If you're going to use an example, at least go with The Iliad or Anna Karenina.

I'll agree with you on the literary merit.

But I'm talking about human ability to accomplish a task in a short amount of time, and to do it at a level of quality that's polished. No capitalization or punctuation, and spelling, doesn't matter. Blame Oliver.

If JJ wrote Ulysses in 100 days, then we'd be getting somewhere. But he agonized over word choice for years.

[SoonerCoug]

I think it's pretty obvious that it's not an ancient record. The most like explanation for it is that it was written by someone in the early 19th century in 16th-century English. What real evidence is there that it's an ancient record? Chiasmus? I think I could write a BOM equivalent.

[Levin]

I think it's pretty obvious that it's not an ancient record. The most like explanation for it is that it was written by someone in the early 19th century in 16th-century English. What real evidence is there that it's an ancient record? Chiasmus? I think I could write a BOM equivalent.

In 100 days?

No you couldn't.

[Topper]

Regardless of how long it actually took to write (maybe it was ~75 days while he was dictating it, maybe it was 3+ years before it was dictated, or something), I've never understood what was so amazing or remarkable about the stories. Levin mentioned "minimal editing", but it contained no punctuation, little capitalization, and many spelling errors. If I sat down and dedicated time to write a story, copied word for word a bunch of stuff from the KJV, and added a lot of "And it came to pass...", I think I could maybe even do it.

The BOM is not a ho-hum accomplishment, but it's not the outer-worldly accomplishment Levin describes it to be.

There are master storytellers who achieve something similar in some stories told. Joseph could spin a yarn and captivate an audience, so it is not beyond comprehension that he was such a storyteller. OTOH, we can leave open the possibility he had some supernatural assistance. At least for sake of argument. Both sides seem dismissive of the argument of the other.

[Indy Coug]

If he wrote the book before he dictated it, we really have no idea how long it took to write.

He put the entire manuscript in his hat and then dictated it in poor cabin lighting?

[SoonerCoug]

In 100 days?

No you couldn't.

I wrote a 200-page dissertation without a single spelling mistake in 14 days (and I don't use spellcheck). And I didn't have the luxury of making things up. It was the product of two years of research, so it was very easy to write fast.

If JS had been contemplating his fables in advance for years, why couldn't he dictate them over a few months?

[scottie]

He put the entire manuscript in his hat and then dictated it in poor cabin lighting?

The entire manuscript would only have to be in the hat if it was dictated in one sitting, which it wasn't right? And we have no idea how good/bad the lighting was.

[Levin]

The BOM is not a ho-hum accomplishment, but it's not the outer-worldly accomplishment Levin describes it to be.

There are master storytellers who achieve something similar in some stories told. Joseph could spin a yarn and captivate an audience, so it is not beyond comprehension that he was such a storyteller. OTOH, we can leave open the possibility he had some supernatural assistance. At least for sake of argument. Both sides seem dismissive of the argument of the other.

I think there's something special about creating the written word. It takes much more effort than the other arts. It's not the literary achievement (leave that normative question aside), it's the creation of the work in the amount of time by Joseph.

And he was 24 years old. Think of it. A 24 year old mad genius who had been plotting it since he was 21.

[CardiacCoug]

The BOM is not a ho-hum accomplishment, but it's not the outer-worldly accomplishment Levin describes it to be.

There are master storytellers who achieve something similar in some stories told. Joseph could spin a yarn and captivate an audience, so it is not beyond comprehension that he was such a storyteller. OTOH, we can leave open the possibility he had some supernatural assistance. At least for sake of argument. Both sides seem dismissive of the argument of the other.

Yeah it was an incredible accomplishment. Truly impressive. Maybe 1 in a million people could do something like that. But I don't buy the argument that it was impossible without divine assistance. Doesn't seem like it would be impossible for someone as religion-obsessed and intimately familiar with the lexicon, style and content of the KJV Bible as Joseph was.

[Indy Coug]

I think there's something special about creating the written word. It takes much more effort than the other arts. It's not the literary achievement (leave that normative question aside), it's the creation of the work in the amount of time by Joseph.

And he was 24 years old. Think of it. A 24 year old mad genius who had been plotting it since he was 21.

With a prodigious educational background to draw upon for such an undertaking.

[Levin]

I wrote a 200-page dissertation without a single spelling mistake in 14 days (and I don't use spellcheck). And I didn't have the luxury of making things up. It was the product of two years of research, so it was very easy to write fast.

If JS had been contemplating his fables in advance for years, why couldn't he dictate them over a few months?

Impressive.

Did you dictate it to somebody, or go back and edit as you wrote?

[SoonerCoug]

I think there's something special about creating the written word. It takes much more effort than the other arts. It's not the literary achievement (leave that normative question aside), it's the creation of the work in the amount of time by Joseph.

And he was 24 years old. Think of it. A 24 year old mad genius who had been plotting it since he was 21.

I don't think it was a matter of plotting. He was religiously obsessed.