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  • Kosher atheists?

    Kosher atheists? Obama adviser breaks with his faith but still abides by its rules

    Fascinating commentary (at least for me).

    Usually when a person ditches religion, he or she also happily ditches the antiquated rules and regulations that go along with a strict observance of faith. Good-bye, stupid rules about who can have sex with whom, and under what circumstances! Good riddance to prohibitions against women doing (or saying) things without the approval of men!

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    So when someone does the opposite — ditches God but keeps the rules — it’s notable. Why would someone choose to live within the confines of religious laws but reject the God who commanded people to live by them?

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    Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, author of “Kosher Sex,” appears to agree with Emanuel. “Judaism,” he told me in a phone call, “is not a religion primarily of faith. It is a religion primarily of practice. . . . . . Jewish tradition is more than what we believe at any given time.” Christianity, on the other hand, is a religion of dogmas and creeds. Avowals of belief are a requirement of faith. Without them, one is faithless.

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    Judaism is a religion, yes, but it’s also a culture, a tradition and an ethnicity. These multiple strands of belonging allow a person to reject the faith while continuing the habit, thousands of years old, of abstaining from pork and shellfish and consuming meat and milk separately — and thus claim a Jewish identity.

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    But it is Rebecca Goldstein, the philosopher, atheist and author of the novel “36 Arguments for the Existence of God” who offers the most resonant possible rationale for an atheist to continue kosher practices. Kashrut is a discipline – like running, or writing or yoga – that can put a person in touch with the transcendent aspects of life, even in the absence of God.
    I wonder where Mormonism sits on the continuum. We are heavily infused with both practice and avowals of faith, but it’s our practices that define us as a people, a culture, and a tradition. I wonder if this isn’t at the center of the JD crowd’s struggles: rejecting the faith-based claims but still wanting the tradition, still wanting to be “Mormon.” I think I said elsewhere that the tent is big enough for all, but if you want to be welcome there, you’ve got to obey the rules of the tent. A fellow Mormon’s doubts or disbelief are much more easily understood (or even tolerated or embraced) by the whole (especially a spouse, I would think) when that same Mormon faithfully practices his/her Mormonism. Perhaps this explains JD’s continued affiliation.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  • #2
    I saw this when you posted it, myboynoah, and I think it has some great seeds for discussion. Regarding Mormonism, is practice more valued by the in-group than faith? Are both considered necessary aspects of in-group inclusion? What are the rules of the tent, and who defines them?

    I don't have the time to write much right now, but I didn't want this to fade into the annals before writing at least something.
    "What are you prepared to do?" - Jimmy Malone

    "What choice?" - Abe Petrovsky

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Joe Public View Post
      Regarding Mormonism, is practice more valued by the in-group than faith? Are both considered necessary aspects of in-group inclusion? What are the rules of the tent, and who defines them?
      From my experience, inclusion/acceptance by the group require both practice and belief/faith.

      Those that express a belief in the story and doctrines of Mormonism but fail to live its practices are generally dismissed as lazy.

      Those that engage in the practices but are known to disbelieve all or part of the Mormon story are also not accepted as part of the group and are dismissed as being "cultural Mormons" or in it for social reasons. Being viewed as a cultural or social Mormon is not seen positively.

      Who decides the rules of the tent? The people in the tent. What they say goes, even if its not official policy of "The Tent." If the people of the tent don't want to make a Coke drinker comfortable in the tent, even if it is not an official policy of The Corporation of the Tent, then a Coke drinker will not feel comfortable.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Portland Ute View Post
        From my experience, inclusion/acceptance by the group require both practice and belief/faith.

        Those that express a belief in the story and doctrines of Mormonism but fail to live its practices are generally dismissed as lazy.

        Those that engage in the practices but are known to disbelieve all or part of the Mormon story are also not accepted as part of the group and are dismissed as being "cultural Mormons" or in it for social reasons. Being viewed as a cultural or social Mormon is not seen positively.

        Who decides the rules of the tent? The people in the tent. What they say goes, even if its not official policy of "The Tent." If the people of the tent don't want to make a Coke drinker comfortable in the tent, even if it is not an official policy of The Corporation of the Tent, then a Coke drinker will not feel comfortable.
        What role does the whole concept of "fake it till you make it" play in all of this?

        What I refer to is the concept that if you don't have a testimony of something, then live the principle and you will gain one.

        I know what you are saying about how judgmental Mormons can be. But I wonder if some of it is in the presentation. And if someone expressed it in Mormon terms - that they have the desire to believe and are trying to gain a testimony of something and that is why they live that way - I have to imagine it is much better received that if someone says "I don't believe this, but have to do it so that I can hang out with ya'll."

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        • #5
          I still pay tithing and have been to church twice in the last two years, and I don't even really believe in God. I do not imbibe. I have never even tried coffee. I do consume the diet coke.
          Last edited by SoonerCoug; 08-14-2012, 04:27 PM.
          That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

          http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SoonerCoug View Post
            I still pay tithing and have been to church twice in the last two years, and I don't even really believe in God. I do not imbibe. I have never even tried coffee. I do consume the diet coke.
            Is that out of a sense of LDS cultural identity or for some other reason?
            "What are you prepared to do?" - Jimmy Malone

            "What choice?" - Abe Petrovsky

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joe Public View Post
              Is that out of a sense of LDS cultural identity or for some other reason?
              Habit
              That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

              http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

              Comment

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