Can temple work give people a false sense of hope or security

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  • grapevine
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 1985

    #1

    Can temple work give people a false sense of hope or security

    Case in point Vicarious work is for people that did not have that oppurtunity in this life. I knew of someone whose grandpa rebelled. He died and guys grandma wanted to know when they could do temple work. JFS said forget it.

    I had comp who liked to debate things to stir up your mind be devils advocate. Asked about people that marry out of the church spouse dies they have someone go do the work for them. Went on and on of how Satan won't be there to tempt them, they didn't know it was true, If it didn't work why do they allow it?

    Thing is people that refuse to hear the gospel hear won't hear it there. If you had adequete oppurtunity to hear it here but reject tell there you are only going to the Terrestial Kingdom if you lived honorably but were deceived. People can't use they didn't know gospel was true as excuse not to accept it because you were taught it before and if you listen will know it was true. Read were Marion G Romney said something to that effect.

    I know of peole that marry out of church say in a year we will be an eternal family. If someone refused to listen to missionaries here for decades what makes you think they will listen to missionaries there in a years time.

    W ehave the temple so people that reject the gospel can still be sealed. Since God is fair I don't think he will reward someone that same that rejects gospel in this life as he does that accepts it. He will not be mocked. SWK and BRM gave good talks about that at byu. Heresies and Eternal Marriage.

    We don't deny temple work to people, But I think for the most part, People who marry out of the church hoping to convert spouse but does not convert than do temple work I think for the most part they will be disappointed in the next life as God is a God of the living and temple work works for those that would of taken the oppurtunity had it been afforded them.

    Of course we don't know who will accept it that lived before the gospel was restored so just do the work. But people that had ample oppurtunity like BRM said what shall it profit them. original talk a waste of time for someone that refused baptism but said someone would do the work anyway.
  • clackamascoug
    Banned
    • Dec 2009
    • 9709

    #2
    That would make sense - If the dimension we live in is the only one.

    Comment

    • Moliere
      One man.....one pie
      • Oct 2009
      • 27821

      #3
      Every single time I do baptisms at the temple the temple president tells us that 80% of those that die without hearing about the gospel accept it in the spirit world. And every time I continue to wonder why, if the results over in the spirit world are so much better than here on earth, why are we still doing so much ineffective missionary work

      So I ask myself, should I invite over my friends to hear the gospel (which I've been told at times will give a 50/50 shot at them accepting) or should I just wait for them to die (which will give them a 80/20 shot at accepting). Being a numbers guy I've elected to not share the gospel in the hopes of saving more people.
      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

      Comment

      • jay santos
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 13652

        #4
        Jay Santos, cynical POS, here.

        I think there is an element of temple (and other church) service, especially for old people, that serves the same purpose of drugs/alcohol for others. You check out of life for a few hours and don't have to deal with your problems.

        Comment

        • Northwestcoug
          Cocked and Loaded
          • May 2011
          • 17948

          #5
          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
          Every single time I do baptisms at the temple the temple president tells us that 80% of those that die without hearing about the gospel accept it in the spirit world. And every time I continue to wonder why, if the results over in the spirit world are so much better than here on earth, why are we still doing so much ineffective missionary work

          So I ask myself, should I invite over my friends to hear the gospel (which I've been told at times will give a 50/50 shot at them accepting) or should I just wait for them to die (which will give them a 80/20 shot at accepting). Being a numbers guy I've elected to not share the gospel in the hopes of saving more people.
          Where do the words of a slightly senile temple president fall in your schedule of doctrinal authority?
          "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
          "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
          - SeattleUte

          Comment

          • byu71
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2008
            • 22070

            #6
            Originally posted by Moliere View Post
            Every single time I do baptisms at the temple the temple president tells us that 80% of those that die without hearing about the gospel accept it in the spirit world.
            Dang, I sincerely believed it was a blessing to have been born in the church and it was because I was a really good guy in the pre-existence.

            Comment

            • Indy Coug
              Heartless Bastard
              • Dec 2008
              • 18747

              #7
              Originally posted by byu71 View Post
              Dang, I sincerely believed it was a blessing to have been born in the church and it was because I was a really good guy in the pre-existence.
              Karma is a Roulette Wheel.
              Everything in life is an approximation.

              http://twitter.com/CougarStats

              Comment

              • byu71
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 22070

                #8
                Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                Karma is a Roulette Wheel.
                ?? Why would some chick pose as a Roulette Wheel and have you put this in the wrong thread??

                Comment

                • clackamascoug
                  Banned
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 9709

                  #9
                  Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                  Dang, I sincerely believed it was a blessing to have been born in the church and it was because I was a really good guy in the pre-existence.
                  It didn't take me long on my mission to figure out that it would actually be a disadvantage to have been born under the covenant.

                  I obviously would have accepted the gospel in the hereafter, since I did here. Having my mortal probation exist under the conditional realm of gospel adherence, would actually be a more difficult path to take than a "free wheeling" life of no consequence, where casual sin could have been "written off" through post mortem temple work. There's got to be a bonus other than the covenant recipients bowing at my feet in awe at my kindness and sacrifice.

                  (Every time I turn around, quantum mechanics and multiple dimensions provides a healthy dose of checks and balances in an other wise black and white existence. - Somewhere, I'm sure I'm a rapscallion with a healthy dose of VD.)

                  Comment

                  • SeattleUte
                    Faith crisis consultant
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 20837

                    #10
                    The title of this thread is all I need to see of it. YES!!! absolutely.
                    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                    --Jonathan Swift

                    Comment

                    • Donuthole
                      Official Outgayer
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 25236

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      Every single time I do baptisms at the temple the temple president tells us that 80% of those that die without hearing about the gospel accept it in the spirit world. And every time I continue to wonder why, if the results over in the spirit world are so much better than here on earth, why are we still doing so much ineffective missionary work

                      So I ask myself, should I invite over my friends to hear the gospel (which I've been told at times will give a 50/50 shot at them accepting) or should I just wait for them to die (which will give them a 80/20 shot at accepting). Being a numbers guy I've elected to not share the gospel in the hopes of saving more people.
                      Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                      There's three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city; and never go near a lady's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

                      Comment

                      • The Rambam
                        Wandering Rambam
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 394

                        #12
                        Originally posted by grapevine View Post
                        Case in point Vicarious work is for people that did not have that oppurtunity in this life. I knew of someone whose grandpa rebelled. He died and guys grandma wanted to know when they could do temple work. JFS said forget it.

                        I had comp who liked to debate things to stir up your mind be devils advocate. Asked about people that marry out of the church spouse dies they have someone go do the work for them. Went on and on of how Satan won't be there to tempt them, they didn't know it was true, If it didn't work why do they allow it?

                        Thing is people that refuse to hear the gospel hear won't hear it there. If you had adequete oppurtunity to hear it here but reject tell there you are only going to the Terrestial Kingdom if you lived honorably but were deceived. People can't use they didn't know gospel was true as excuse not to accept it because you were taught it before and if you listen will know it was true. Read were Marion G Romney said something to that effect.

                        I know of peole that marry out of church say in a year we will be an eternal family. If someone refused to listen to missionaries here for decades what makes you think they will listen to missionaries there in a years time.

                        W ehave the temple so people that reject the gospel can still be sealed. Since God is fair I don't think he will reward someone that same that rejects gospel in this life as he does that accepts it. He will not be mocked. SWK and BRM gave good talks about that at byu. Heresies and Eternal Marriage.

                        We don't deny temple work to people, But I think for the most part, People who marry out of the church hoping to convert spouse but does not convert than do temple work I think for the most part they will be disappointed in the next life as God is a God of the living and temple work works for those that would of taken the oppurtunity had it been afforded them.

                        Of course we don't know who will accept it that lived before the gospel was restored so just do the work. But people that had ample oppurtunity like BRM said what shall it profit them. original talk a waste of time for someone that refused baptism but said someone would do the work anyway.
                        That's a clown question bro.
                        A Mormon president could make a perfectly patriotic, competent, inspiring leader. But not Mitt Romney. He is a husked void. --David Javerbaum

                        Comment

                        • Moliere
                          One man.....one pie
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 27821

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                          Every single time I do baptisms at the temple the temple president tells us that 80% of those that die without hearing about the gospel accept it in the spirit world. And every time I continue to wonder why, if the results over in the spirit world are so much better than here on earth, why are we still doing so much ineffective missionary work

                          So I ask myself, should I invite over my friends to hear the gospel (which I've been told at times will give a 50/50 shot at them accepting) or should I just wait for them to die (which will give them a 80/20 shot at accepting). Being a numbers guy I've elected to not share the gospel in the hopes of saving more people.
                          Sometimes when you read the BoM, you don't really understand it. Take for instance this gem from Moroni 8

                          22 For behold that all little children are aalive in Christ, and also all they that are without the blaw. For the power of credemption cometh on all them that have dno law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—

                          23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in adead works.
                          So apparently Mormon preached (or wrote) that those that died without the law are saved in Christ, similar to little children. Which brings me back to a serious response to the question posed in the title of this thread that, although I wouldn't use the word "false", but temple work seems to be a physical act that brings more sense of security in saving our ancestors.....even if the BoM tells us that temple work (or specifically baptisms) is not needed for those that died without hearing the Gospel.
                          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                          Comment

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