Randy Bott and the Priesthood Ban

[UtahDan]

I know I have posted this before, but here is what Bob Jones University said about it's racist past:

“For almost two centuries American Christianity, including BJU in its early stages, was characterized by the segregationist ethos of American culture. Consequently, for far too long, we allowed institutional policies regarding race to be shaped more directly by that ethos than by the principles and precepts of the Scriptures. We conformed to the culture rather than provide a clear Christian counterpoint to it.

“In so doing, we failed to accurately represent the Lord and to fulfill the commandment to love others as ourselves. For these failures we are profoundly sorry. Though no known antagonism toward minorities or expressions of racism on a personal level have ever been tolerated on our campus, we allowed institutional policies to remain in place that were racially hurtful.”

Bob Jones is a pretty low bar.

[creekster]

I know I have posted this before, but here is what Bob Jones University said about it's racist past:



Bob Jones is a pretty low bar.

The prophecy overlay is a problem (whether you think it sufficient to warrant no apology or not) that BJU doesn't have. IOW, different kind of bar.

[Goatnapper'96]

Indeed. "Cluster foxtrot" is closer to reality.

Charlie Foxtrot, Professor, Charlie Foxtrot.

[LA Ute]

The proper position of the church should be: "We don't know why God allowed us to do this for such a long period of time."

Oooh. I like that. (But now poor Moliere will be foreclosed from agreeing with you because I do. Sorry, M.)

[UtahDan]

The prophecy overlay is a problem (whether you think it sufficient to warrant no apology or not) that BJU doesn't have. IOW, different kind of bar.

I agree, it would be more embarrassing for the church to do it. But the alternative is maintaining the position that it was all God's doing and no one knows why. Leaving aside that it is the right thing to do (IMO of course) I think you could have an interesting debate about whether the status quo is or is not most costly (in many senses) and embarrassing.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Charlie Foxtrot, Professor, Charlie Foxtrot.

Yes sir!

[Jacob]

The proper position of the church should be: "We don't know why God allowed us to do this for such a long period of time."

I guess he's just a big jerk.

I think the official position of the church is "We don't know." Here, you just want to add "why God allowed us" which doesn't really remove God from the equation like you wanted to. I don't see how this improves on the more accurate and simple: "We don't know. But in 1978 he told us to change the policy and we don't discriminate."

[Flystripper]

I guess he's just a big jerk.

I think the official position of the church is "We don't know." Here, you just want to add "why God allowed us" which doesn't really remove God from the equation like you wanted to. I don't see how this improves on the more accurate and simple: "We don't know. But in 1978 he told us to change the policy and we don't discriminate."

did I post that?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I guess he's just a big jerk.

I think the official position of the church is "We don't know." Here, you just want to add "why God allowed us" which doesn't really remove God from the equation like you wanted to. I don't see how this improves on the more accurate and simple: "We don't know. But in 1978 he told us to change the policy and we don't discriminate."

First of all, that was my quote, not Flystripper's. Dammit, I want the credit.

Hate to break it to you, but SWK spent months getting everybody on board and then went to God for a confirmation. God didn't just change his mind in 1978.

[Pheidippides]

First of all, that was my quote, not Flystripper's. Dammit, I want the credit.

Hate to break it to you, but SWK spent months getting everybody on board and then went to God for a confirmation. God didn't just change his mind in 1978.

Don't forget the years of Hugh b brown and subsequently David o McKay trying to do the same only have issues with J Fielding Smith and Harold B Lee.

[SeattleUte]

BYU and its law school should both be renamed. Brigham Young and J. Reuben Clark are both an embarrassment. The university should auction the name to a super rich donor who'd beef up the endowent as part of the univesity swearing off any LDS subsidy and removing GAs from the board. $2 billion for Marriott University. The law school should be named after its founding dean, Rex Lee.

These things would do wonders for BYU.

[Jacob]

First of all, that was my quote, not Flystripper's. Dammit, I want the credit.

Hate to break it to you, but SWK spent months getting everybody on board and then went to God for a confirmation. God didn't just change his mind in 1978.

Huh. Wonder why it did that, showing up as a Flystripper quote.

As to you second paragraph. Really? This is shocking news. Perhaps I could read about it somewhere!?

[Ma'ake]

I include them in the more benign term. Misguided and racist men trying to explain and defend something should never have been.

If you want the church to mention every specific you'll have a hell of a long statement. I'll be content with "we were wrong".

I agree this is the best way forward, but the turbulence will be substantial. My mom is good friends with a TBM neighbor lady who is reading the Bushman bio on JS. It's pretty traumatic for her, in fact she stopped reading and said she can't handle it. Maybe the answer for folks who struggle with paradigm shifts is to just let them fade away, let time take care of the problem.

One of the things that seems to be arising with the availability of "troublesome" information about the Church on the Internet is the emergence of a different kind of LDS generation.

A woman I work with has an interesting take on things: her parents are on a mission and she is living in their SLC home. She doesn't really believe a lot of the things most faithful LDS would consider essential to being a Mormon, but she goes to church with her kids and is raising them LDS.

"When they get old enough to decide what they think about Joseph Smith and some of the problematic issues, that is their call."

I see a fairly fractured tiering of adherence to the belief system, something I never imagined I'd see when I was a kid growing up.

[Moliere]

It becomes easier to imagine when you figure that a unanimous vote of the Twelve is required for any major policy change.

unless you want to end polygamy...

[Pheidippides]

I agree this is the best way forward, but the turbulence will be substantial. My mom is good friends with a TBM neighbor lady who is reading the Bushman bio on JS. It's pretty traumatic for her, in fact she stopped reading and said she can't handle it. Maybe the answer for folks who struggle with paradigm shifts is to just let them fade away, let time take care of the problem.

One of the things that seems to be arising with the availability of "troublesome" information about the Church on the Internet is the emergence of a different kind of LDS generation.

A woman I work with has an interesting take on things: her parents are on a mission and she is living in their SLC home. She doesn't really believe a lot of the things most faithful LDS would consider essential to being a Mormon, but she goes to church with her kids and is raising them LDS.

"When they get old enough to decide what they think about Joseph Smith and some of the problematic issues, that is their call."

I see a tiering of adherence to the belief system, something I never imagined I'd see when I was a kid growing up.

Lol. Bushman is tame, too.

I'm not unlike the woman you work with. I am agnostic on a lot of stuff, anyway.