Randy Bott and the Priesthood Ban

[Solon]

Thanks. You are proving my point.

Along these lines, I came away from that article with a "you have to find out for yourself" [but you had better get the "right" answer] message.

[Indy Coug]

http://mormonchannel.org/why-i-believe/40

The whole podcast is worth listening to, but go to 46:30 to get his views on blacks and the priesthood.

[LA Ute]

Honestly, I'm pretty surprised. A bunch of very smart, highly educated men defending purely ad hominem attacks. Have you really thought that through?

[pellegrino]

Honestly, I'm pretty surprised. A bunch of very smart, highly educated men defending purely ad hominem attacks. Have you really thought that through?

where are the ad hominem attacks? They read an article and pointed out that he could be seen as an Uncle Tom because of the arguments he put forth in it.

I don't see that as an attempt to negate his arguments by belittling his character, rather an interpretation of how his arguments could be interpreted.

I don't like the epithet either, but I don't think it is being used as an ad hominem, at least as I understand the term.

[All-American]

It's an extremely offensive term for a white person to use, and I wouldn't use it, and probably shouldn't have said I was glad someone used it. But it's the term you naturally think of when you see a black person protecting a white organization rightly accused of racism.

Ah. That's the difference. The people calling him an Uncle Tom are RIGHT.

IndyCoug and LAUte, we expect your apologies forthwith.

[TripletDaddy]

Ah. That's the difference. The people calling him an Uncle Tom are RIGHT.

IndyCoug and LAUte, we expect your apologies forthwith.

I dont Know who is Right or wrong on this board, but I'd be genuinely interested in your explanation for the ban if you had one.

[pellegrino]

Ah. That's the difference. The people calling him an Uncle Tom are RIGHT.

IndyCoug and LAUte, we expect your apologies forthwith.

right about what? are they right in their opinion on the origin of the priesthood ban or are they right about calling him an uncle tom?

If you're saying they're right about the latter then you might be on to something

The term Uncle Tom describes someone who willingly or unwillingly betrays their own (insert group here, but it usually refers to a racial group) by justifying, aiding or participating in its oppression. I think that based on what Hamilton is proposing with this article, the term is not out of bounds. Yes, it is a highly charged term, hence the reaction from LA Ute and Indy, but it is very specific and under the circumstances it might be a very accurate descriptor.

[LA Ute]

right about what? are they right in their opinion on the origin of the priesthood ban or are they right about calling him an uncle tom?

If you're saying they're right about the latter then you might be on to something

The term Uncle Tom describes someone who willingly or unwillingly betrays their own (insert group here, but it usually refers to a racial group) by justifying, aiding or participating in its oppression. I think that based on what Hamilton is proposing with this article, the term is not out of bounds. Yes, it is a highly charged term, hence the reaction from LA Ute and Indy, but it is very specific and under the circumstances it might be a very accurate descriptor.

You are splitting hairs now.

[pellegrino]

You are splitting hairs now.

I told you how I feel about it, but that doesn't mean others can't feel differently and if ever there were a situation for the correct use of the term . . .

[All-American]

I dont Know who is Right or wrong on this board, but I'd be genuinely interested in your explanation for the ban if you had one.

I've given it before.

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=5593

It was almost three years ago (time flies, doesn't it?), but it still mostly represents how I feel about the topic.

[All-American]

right about what? are they right in their opinion on the origin of the priesthood ban or are they right about calling him an uncle tom?

If you're saying they're right about the latter then you might be on to something

The term Uncle Tom describes someone who willingly or unwillingly betrays their own (insert group here, but it usually refers to a racial group) by justifying, aiding or participating in its oppression. I think that based on what Hamilton is proposing with this article, the term is not out of bounds. Yes, it is a highly charged term, hence the reaction from LA Ute and Indy, but it is very specific and under the circumstances it might be a very accurate descriptor.

Like I said. It's apparently okay to use the highly charged and derogatory term, as long as you're RIGHT when you use it.

[All-American]

I told you how I feel about it, but that doesn't mean others can't feel differently and if ever there were a situation for the correct use of the term . . .

I invite you to revisit that presumption. It's possible to make the same argument without using that term. It would probably be a lot more effective, too.

[pellegrino]

I invite you to revisit that presumption. It's possible to make the same argument without using that term. It would probably be a lot more effective, too.

Then educate us. As derogatory as it may be, If you can think of a concise term that conveys the same sense without the historical baggage, then by all means propose it as an alternative. Scolding people for using a term correctly simply because it offends doesn't contribute much and isn't very effective.

[Indy Coug]

Then educate us. As derogatory as it may be, If you can think of a concise term that conveys the same sense without the historical baggage, then by all means propose it as an alternative. Scolding people for using a term correctly simply because it offends doesn't contribute much and isn't very effective.

I think about as far as you could defensibly go is calling him an apologist - which is a race-neutral label. IMO, "Uncle Tom" is on the other side of a coin that has the "n word" written on it.

[pellegrino]

I think about as far as you could defensibly go is calling him an apologist - which is a race-neutral label. IMO, "Uncle Tom" is on the other side of a coin that has the "n word" written on it.

Apologist doesn't come near the precision of Uncle Tom, it lacks the sense of betrayal, the lack of solidarity. Traitor to or betraying one's own would be close. Perhaps sellout would work.

I don't think Uncle Tom is a racial epithet, an epithet, yes, but I don't think it's tantamount to the N word. Just my own, malleable opinion though.