George Albert Smith & Seeing Christ

[Uncle Ted]

There is a woman in my ward who bears testimony that she has seen Christ nearly every month. Almost without fail.

Maybe she has one of those new "Daily Bread" toasters/radios... My neighbor has one and loves it.

[Northwestcoug]

DC 93:1



Beside leaders in the early church I believe that Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F. Smith (section 138) and E. T. Benson have all gone on the record as seeing the face of Christ.

I'm not sure that Lorenzo Snow gave a first-hand account of seeing Jesus. The story of Jesus appearing to him in the temple was told my his granddaughter, at least according to the LDS website.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...004d82620aRCRD

Not that that necessarily invalidates the story, but I haven't seen an account directly from him.

[Northwestcoug]

This is typical with my experience. My mission president was big on this. He would frequently quote section 93. My bishop about 10 years ago was also really big on it. I haven't noticed it being discussed much since then, but I've been in young men's and primary the last 10 years.

It seems GBH also came out towards the end of his life hinting that he had never had any grand experiences like this.

I was told in the MTC (more than once) that of course the apostles had seen Christ. How else could they be 'special witnesses' of him?

I also had a BYU religion professor whose bag was receiving a visitation from Christ. He said that the calling and election happens either in this life or the next, and it involves getting a visitation from Christ, and you receive a vision of the world like Nephi's. This was his focus for basically an entire semester. I think it was his PhD thesis or something.

[Eddie]

Maybe she has one of those new "Daily Bread" toasters/radios... My neighbor has one and loves it.

That is COOL.

I would love to give her one of those babies and see her reaction. Priceless to be sure.

[mtnbiker]

I remember Boyd K. Packer giving a talk in conference years ago where he kind of addressed this. He basically said that they don't openly talk about the sacred experiences that qualify them as witnesses of Christ. You can obviously take that any way you want, but he didn't come right out and say that they have seen Him. But as others have said, you can get a sure witness and testimony through the Spirit.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

There is a woman in my ward who bears testimony that she has seen Christ nearly every month. Almost without fail.

So what she is really saying is that even Christ isn't quite a 100% home teacher?

[Indy Coug]

So what she is really saying is that even Christ isn't quite a 100% home teacher?

He gives her a phone call if he can't make it.

[scottie]

I remember Boyd K. Packer giving a talk in conference years ago where he kind of addressed this. He basically said that they don't openly talk about the sacred experiences that qualify them as witnesses of Christ. You can obviously take that any way you want, but he didn't come right out and say that they have seen Him. But as others have said, you can get a sure witness and testimony through the Spirit.

I think this was the one, although I didn't have time to read it before posting:

http://www.lds.org/general-conferenc...welve?lang=eng

[Jacob]

I remember Boyd K. Packer giving a talk in conference years ago where he kind of addressed this. He basically said that they don't openly talk about the sacred experiences that qualify them as witnesses of Christ. You can obviously take that any way you want, but he didn't come right out and say that they have seen Him. But as others have said, you can get a sure witness and testimony through the Spirit.

He's been pretty explicit that his testimony as a "special witness" wasn't received in any special way in a recent conference address.

[The Rambam]

When Joseph Smith called the first Quorum of 12 Apostles he told them that their calling was not complete until they met with Christ personally. He sent them forth to do so.

SWK tells of going into the wilderness (I think in Colorado IIRC) after receiving his call to the 12 and finding Christ.

HJG never saw Jesus and felt inadequate because of this his whole life.

ETB came out of his office in Europe when he was in charge of the food distribution program after WWII with his face glowing and his biographer assumes he was talking with Jesus. He never left an account of seeing Jesus (that I'm aware of).

JFS never claims to have spoken with Jesus (of have seen him) in DC 138. Similarly, BKP has said in conference that he was a "witness of those that have passed beyond the veil" but didn't give specifics or say the dead he saw was Jesus.

The last "witness" I can remember was David B. Haight telling about a dream he had of the Savior.

It is clear that Mormon Doctrine is that man can speak with Jesus in this life. I have met some that claim to have done so. It is also clear that not all Apostles in this dispensation have done so. Whether it is because Jesus is too busy for some Apostles, or some other reason we have no idea.

It is also clear that we are de-emphasizing this aspect of our doctrine. It makes us sound crazy to claim to be seeing Jesus.

And while the early call to the Apostleship in this dispensation was specifically a call to be a special witness of Christ BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEEN HIM AND TALKED TO HIM, that is clearly no longer the case.

It is absolutely irrelevant to the Church if any of the Apostles have seen and spoken with the Resurrected Savior because they refuse to testify about it. They witness nothing to us so it doesn't matter what they have witnessed. I can't think of a talk from an Apostle that couldn't have been given by the guy that lives across the street from me.

[Uncle Ted]

When Joseph Smith called the first Quorum of 12 Apostles he told them that their calling was not complete until they met with Christ personally. He sent them forth to do so.

SWK tells of going into the wilderness (I think in Colorado IIRC) after receiving his call to the 12 and finding Christ.

HJG never saw Jesus and felt inadequate because of this his whole life.

ETB came out of his office in Europe when he was in charge of the food distribution program after WWII with his face glowing and his biographer assumes he was talking with Jesus. He never left an account of seeing Jesus (that I'm aware of).

JFS never claims to have spoken with Jesus (of have seen him) in DC 138. Similarly, BKP has said in conference that he was a "witness of those that have passed beyond the veil" but didn't give specifics or say the dead he saw was Jesus.

The last "witness" I can remember was David B. Haight telling about a dream he had of the Savior.

It is clear that Mormon Doctrine is that man can speak with Jesus in this life. I have met some that claim to have done so. It is also clear that not all Apostles in this dispensation have done so. Whether it is because Jesus is too busy for some Apostles, or some other reason we have no idea.

It is also clear that we are de-emphasizing this aspect of our doctrine. It makes us sound crazy to claim to be seeing Jesus.

And while the early call to the Apostleship in this dispensation was specifically a call to be a special witness of Christ BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEEN HIM AND TALKED TO HIM, that is clearly no longer the case.

It is absolutely irrelevant to the Church if any of the Apostles have seen and spoken with the Resurrected Savior because they refuse to testify about it. They witness nothing to us so it doesn't matter what they have witnessed. I can't think of a talk from an Apostle that couldn't have been given by the guy that lives across the street from me.

ETB said the following...

Today in Christ's restored church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, He is revealing Himself and His will—from the first prophet of the Restoration, even Joseph Smith, to the present"

-Benson, Ezra Taft. "Joy in Christ." Ensign 16 (Mar. 1986):4.

[The Rambam]

ETB said the following...

Today in Christ's restored church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, He is revealing Himself and His will—from the first prophet of the Restoration, even Joseph Smith, to the present"

-Benson, Ezra Taft. "Joy in Christ." Ensign 16 (Mar. 1986):4.

This is one of those wonderful quotes that will have great meaning for those who want it to have great meaning and will mean nothing to the vast majority because it really says nothing. It is the perfect example of not saying anything while giving those who need something, a branch to cling to.

If there is any question on how to share your witness of Christ, just read Joseph Smith History's account of the first vision or DC 110. It isn't hard to testify of a personal witness of Christ and Joseph and other did so plainly. But the Church as become so vague and cute about it as it has become uncool.

Imagine the impact if our Prophets were the only ones on Earth boldly proclaiming that they did indeed speak to the Resurrected Lord and he instructed them thus . . . Were followers of Christ in Joseph's day somehow prejudiced by Joseph's witness? Are we somehow blessed by our leaders' dancing around the edges of innuendo?

[ClairB]

George F. Richards, Diary,
--
Oct 6, 1907; Sunday After the meeting the Presidency and the Twelve with Pres[iden]t. [Anthony W.] Ivins repaired to//the Bee Hive [House] where Bro[ther]. Ivins was instructed by Pres[ident]. Francis M. Lyman at the request of Pres[ident]. [Joseph F.] Smith the latter adding a few words which in Substance is as follows. The Twelve are the Special witnesses of Jesus Christ & should be able to testify that he lives even as if he had been seen by them. Bro[ther]. Ivins was asked by Pres[ident]. F[rancis]. M. Lyman if he was willing to accept of the calling, which he by uplifted hand signified his willingness so to do.

[fusnik]

On my mission Richard G. Scott said he, and the other Apostles, were 'Soecial Witnesses' because they did not believe, they knew Christ lives.

We had an Elder press him about it which was awesomely uncomfortable and in his retort he basically said he'd seen Christ but that others may have different experiences that lead them to know.

Also on my mission Holland said missionaries were little 'A' apostles and the quorum were big 'A' apostles and there was a distinct difference between our witness and theirs.

[woot]

Maybe Christ used to appear to the apostles, but doesn't bother anymore since anything he wanted to tell us has already been said. That would explain why new information and insight from the brethurn seems to have ceased. Perhaps this is the stage in the church's history in which prophets, seers, and revelators are obviated and replaced with managers, cheerleaders, and regulators.