USA Today on Mormons, Mitt, and Racism

[Jeff Lebowski]

Full text of MEP talk here:

http://www.mormonismi.net/mep1954/mep1954.txt

[SeattleUte]

I'm pretty sure I don't agree with this. Was Mormonism ever based on white racial supremacy? Sure it was racist, but I'm not sure I'd ever say it was based on racism. The rest of paragraph also seems to skew things quite a bit. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but this paragraph (which is placed early in the article) has already lowered my perception of this whole thing.

Also, I leave open the option that people can evolve on issues. Obama has been anti-gay marriage his whole life, except the past couple months, and I don't hold that against him to this day.

How can you not agree with it? Mormon theology and scripture is shot through with the idea that God indicates moral superiority with white skin.

[TripletDaddy]

Is that the same talk that mentions blacks owning Cadillacs?

[YOhio]

Is that the same talk that mentions blacks owning Cadillacs?

That was the end of Godfather II. Moran.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Is that the same talk that mentions blacks owning Cadillacs?

...

Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro
have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every
Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing
that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the
world. but let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the
Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?
It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath joined
together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of
the thing--what God hath separated, let not man bring together again.

[TripletDaddy]

That was the end of Godfather II. Moran.

The very end? I thought the end of godfather II took place outside the boathouse of the Carleone compound in Nevada? Michael is sitting there in a chair all alone. I don't remember him talking about black people owning Cadillacs.

[SeattleUte]

I love you progmos. But for all eternity your descendants are going to disrespect you for not standing up against, setting yourself apart from this terrible legacy. They are going to say "he was a good man in many ways, but..." This is the kind of thing that defines you for time and all eternity, as long as people care to look you up.

You can't have it both ways, as Sullivan notes. This is another big reason the LDS Church needs to apogize and repudiate this awful past. So many ignorant people would be enlightented, but also so many already enlightened people would be purged of this unfortunate association.

[TripletDaddy]

I love you progmos. But for all eternity your descendants are going to disrespect you for not standing up against, setting yourself apart from this terrible legacy. They are going to say "he was a good man in many ways, but..." This is the kind of thing that defines you for time and all eternity, as long as people care to look you up.

You can't have it both ways, as Sullivan notes. This is another big reason the LDS Church needs to apogize and repudiate this awful past. So many ignorant people would be enlightented, but also so many already enlightened people would be purged of this unfortunate association.

I'm exempt from this because I joined the Church after 1978!

[SeattleUte]

It's an exceedingly well written article because he identifies clearly the evasions engaged in by LDS leaders and therefore why the LDS Church hasn't gone far enough. Why do they persist in this? To preserve the cult of GA infalliblity. "I don't know" ought to be an infuriating response. It is to me.

As you see from Sullivan's article, there are real consequences. The need for apology and repudiation is tangible and urgent. We saw those real consequences when Randy Bott, a supposedly highly educated man, repeated racist dogma that is still believed by millions of Mormons, and apparently he has been teaching to impressionable youth at BYU.

[YOhio]

The very end? I thought the end of godfather II took place outside the boathouse of the Carleone compound in Nevada? Michael is sitting there in a chair all alone. I don't remember him talking about black people owning Cadillacs.

I was in error. I was thinking about the final scene in a flashback when Sonny was badmouthing the Japanese and Michael was announcing he was going to war. But it was actually a dinner scene in the first movie when Sonny referenced the policy banks in Harlem and the people buying new Cadillacs with their winnings.

[SeattleUte]

I'm exempt from this because I joined the Church after 1978!

lol you're more culpable because it was volitional. Some of us didn't choose to be Mormon in the first place.

[SeattleUte]

I was in error. I was thinking about the final scene in a flashback when Sonny was badmouthing the Japanese and Michael was announcing he was going to war. But it was actually a dinner scene in the first movie when Sonny referenced the policy banks in Harlem and the people buying new Cadillacs with their winnings.

This is not a subject appropriate for jokes.

[YOhio]

It's an exceedingly well written article because he identifies clearly the evasions engaged in by LDS leaders and therefore why the LDS Church hasn't gone far enough. Why do they persist in this? To preserve the cult of GA infalliblity. "I don't know" ought to be an infuriating response. It is to me.

As you see from Sullivan's article, there are real consequences. The need for apology and repudiation is tangible and urgent. We saw those real consequences when Randy Bott, a supposedly highly educated man, repeated racist dogma that is still believed by millions of Mormons, and apparently he has been teaching to impressionable youth at BYU.

I've always agreed that an apology is in order. I disagree that millions of Mormons believe the racist dogma espoused by Randy Bott.

[YOhio]

This is not a subject appropriate for jokes.

Sonny Corleone and Mark Peterson were from the same generation.

[SeattleUte]

I've always agreed that an apology is in order. I disagree that millions of Mormons believe the racist dogma espoused by Randy Bott.

Until LDS titans repudiate it, it's presumptively believed by millions of Mormons. The burden of proof to prove otherwise is on you, counselor.

MODERN REVELATION. The GAs are always right. That's what LDS rank and file purport to believe.