The problem with LDS apologetics

[FMCoug]

I just wonder sometimes if this isn't a case of a tempest in a teapot. Sometimes it seems that way. Especially when I look around me at my ward. I don't see people leaving in droves.

When I fixate on my feelings/thoughts, read CUF, Dehlin, etc., I really start to believe that everyone in the Church is on the verge of leaving. However, when I go to church on Sunday, I really feel like I am alone.

I don't know if that makes sense...

I have become convinced that 99% of active members don't fit in the boxes / buckets we try to put them in. Faith is a spectrum ... I just don't see it as all those people at Church on Sunday are mindless Type 1's and the Type 2's are all apostasizing "in droves".

[jay santos]

I have become convinced that 99% of active members don't fit in the boxes / buckets we try to put them in. Faith is a spectrum ... I just don't see it as all those people at Church on Sunday are mindless Type 1's and the Type 2's are all apostasizing "in droves".

You seem to be offended by my Type 1 and Type 2. I didn't mean to say dumb people are type 1 and smart people are type 2. Not at all. It's purely a matter of faith.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Helen was sealed to Joseph at the age of 14 and continued to live with her parents. There is no evidence, or even speculation, that her relationship with Joseph was more than a formality.

Fanny, age 16, is believed to have been a wife in every sense of the word. Though any 'evidence' of the true nature of their relationship is hearsay, at best.

The distinction between sealing and marriage is important when discussing the first polygamous relationships.

Um, yeah. I didn't comment on any sexuality in the relationship.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

[SloanHater]

Um, yeah. I didn't comment on any sexuality in the relationship.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

My comments were directed at the Joseph was a Pedophile crowd. *cough*Scorcho*cough*

[Scorcho]

My comments were directed at the Joseph was a Pedophile crowd. *cough*Scorcho*cough*

Thanks for that. I know you're trying to pin the troll anit-lds label on me .... whatever.

There are a lot of things that are puzzling about the LDS Faith that aren't easily explainable ... Mountain Meadow Massacre, Dinosaurs, etc. It doesn't distract from my beliefs in the truthfulness of the restored gospel, it's just another thing to add to the list of strange things that we don't know the entire truth about.

I thought J.S. marrying a 14 yr. old was an interesting not widely known fact and simply commented on it. My first foray into the religious side of this message board. I guess I'll stick to sports.

[Sullyute]

Thanks for that. I know you're trying to pin the troll anit-lds label on me .... whatever.

There are a lot of things that are puzzling about the LDS Faith that aren't easily explainable ... Mountain Meadow Massacre, Dinosaurs, etc. It doesn't distract from my beliefs in the truthfulness of the restored gospel, it's just another thing to add to the list of strange things that we don't know the entire truth about.

I thought J.S. marrying a 14 yr. old was an interesting not widely known fact and simply commented on it. My first foray into the religious side of this message board. I guess I'll stick to sports.

Scorcho, stick around these parts. We need as many different voices in the foyer as possible. :thumbsup:

[ERCougar]

Scorcho, stick around these parts. We need as many different voices in the foyer as possible. :thumbsup:

Certainly don't leave on account of sloanhater.

(I'm not sure I'm on board with his minimum age of 16 anyway. Nor do I think the lack of a sexual relationship in any way justifies the marriage to Helen Kimball. Read her account--it's pretty disturbing.)

[creekster]

I wish everyone would calm down abotu this. Yes, he married Kimball when she was 14. It also appears there was no sexual realtionship. While the second fact may or may not inform the propriety of the first, it is certainly pertinent in considering it. So the facts are on the table. I dont see why anyone needs to leave or why people are being so touchy about it.

[Indy Coug]

I wish everyone would calm down abotu this. Yes, he married Kimball when she was 14. It also appears there was no sexual realtionship. While the second fact may or may not inform the propriety of the first, it is certainly pertinent in considering it. So the facts are on the table. I dont see why anyone needs to leave or why people are being so touchy about it.

So the interesting question remains: "Why marry a 14 year old girl, when apparently nothing happened other than a marriage ceremony?"

[creekster]

So the interesting question remains: "Why marry a 14 year old girl, when apparently nothing happened other than a marriage ceremony?"

I dont know. UD (I think) said it was dynastic. Maybe so. I am not knowleedgeable to say. But if people care to propose ideas I hope we can do so without making anyone feel like they should leave.

[TripletDaddy]

Evidence of lack of sexual relationship: Helen Kimball lived with her parents.

oh, brother.

There isn't any way to confirm lack of sexual activity. There are only slightly more ways to confirm actual sexual activity.

What we do know definitely is that he married a 14 year old girl.

[creekster]

Evidence of lack of sexual relationship: Helen Kimball lived with her parents.

oh, brother.

There isn't any way to confirm lack of sexual activity. There are only slightly more ways to confirm actual sexual activity.

What we do know definitely is that he married a 14 year old girl.

I am not well read on this, but my understanding is that the evidence is somewhat more substantial than that.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So the interesting question remains: "Why marry a 14 year old girl, when apparently nothing happened other than a marriage ceremony?"

Can't think of a single good reason.

[Indy Coug]

I dont know. UD (I think) said it was dynastic. Maybe so. I am not knowleedgeable to say. But if people care to propose ideas I hope we can do so without making anyone feel like they should leave.

My personal opinion (and as an opinion, I'm not offering any facts because it is an opinion and nothing more) is that the nature of relationships and marriage in the hereafter is radically different than our westernized implementation of it would have us otherwise believe. I think Joseph understood this to some degree and things like this were the result.

But there are so many blanks left unfilled by Joseph on this issue that it's really impossible to know one way or another.

[TripletDaddy]

I am not well read on this, but my understanding is that the evidence is somewhat more substantial than that.

what sort of substantial evidence is there that no sexual activity has taken place between two people? A denial? A lack of accusation?