Friend and tithing

[Viking]

Then only way I would pay tithing is if I were drunk, and then I would be drunk tithing. Friends don't let friends drunk tithe. That is all I have to say on this subject.

I don't always drunk tithe, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis

[cowboy]

...Giving 10% of my income (by my definition that I am comfortable God will agree with) is something I'll do because I hope that one day I'll really comprehend the doctrine, but it doesn't bring the same charitable feeling. At all. And I think that's something that is needing more emphasis...

As I understand it, the law of the tithe is to teach us sacrifice and selflessness, not charity. If you want to feel charitable, then give more in fast offerings or to charities.

To answer the initial question, I don't think it's our place to tell the Lord how to spend His money, so I wouldn't consider a charitable offering as a tithe. However, I also believe that the Lord is the only person we have to justify our actions too, and if US' friend feels like he's doing right, then more power to him.

[The Rambam]

I own a firm (sole shareholder) that is doing pretty well. Because I run the place and can do anything I want (in contrast to attorneys in firms that have more conflicts and onerous policies and procedures and have to have committees approve pro bono projects, etc) I do a lot of pro bono work. This year I have spent over 120 hours (according to my billing records) on pro bono clients referred to me by my Bishop, my former Bishop or my Stake Presidency. This does not include time spent by my associates, paralegals and secretaries--all on salary for which I'm responsible. My firm has been honored by the State Bar as the Pro Bono Law Firm of the Year.

I also make charitable donations outside of the Church (everything from my law school to the Utah County Food & Care Coalition to the International Rescue Committee).

The firm pays for my iPhone and my car and professional organization fees and educational courses. Most of my lunches are business related meetings, and appropriately picked up by the firm. I take home on a W-2 what the wife needs to cover the bills and no more.

My tithing situation is a real muddle. I feel far more like the pioneer-days farmer in regards to my "increase" then a modern wage-earner. There would be no way to give me an easy rule to calculate how much I should pay in tithing.

I probably error on the side of paying too little tithing and too much to other areas of the Church structure (from fast offerings to mission and temple funds to BYU).

I am absolutely comfortable standing before the Lord to be judged on my adherence to the law of sacrifice. I really don't know what the law of tithing is for me and don't really care too much. I am glad the Church does not try to call members to be judged on their payment of tithing--I personally wouldn't put up with a Church audit.

[Rosebud]

What is your intention in this thread?

Nothing really. Just adding my comments like everyone else. Is that a problem?

[HauteCoug]

As I understand it, the law of the tithe is to teach us sacrifice and selflessness, not charity. If you want to feel charitable, then give more in fast offerings or to charities.

To answer the initial question, I don't think it's our place to tell the Lord how to spend His money, so I wouldn't consider a charitable offering as a tithe. However, I also believe that the Lord is the only person we have to justify our actions too, and if US' friend feels like he's doing right, then more power to him.

I feel like charity is the sister to selflessness and sacrifice - they're pretty intricately connected. The church needs money to be run - I get it, and I'm okay with it. But it's not a doctrine that I feel I understand quite fully. I feel like everything we should be doing should involve bearing one another's burdens and caring for one another. Does it make a person lesser in God's eyes if they work closely with charitable organizations instead of working closely with church welfare?

[Surfah]

I feel like charity is the sister to selflessness and sacrifice - they're pretty intricately connected. The church needs money to be run - I get it, and I'm okay with it. But it's not a doctrine that I feel I understand quite fully. I feel like everything we should be doing should involve bearing one another's burdens and caring for one another. Does it make a person lesser in God's eyes if they work closely with charitable organizations instead of working closely with church welfare?

I'd say more like cousin.

[Jacob]

I own a firm (sole shareholder) that is doing pretty well. Because I run the place and can do anything I want (in contrast to attorneys in firms that have more conflicts and onerous policies and procedures and have to have committees approve pro bono projects, etc) I do a lot of pro bono work. This year I have spent over 120 hours (according to my billing records) on pro bono clients referred to me by my Bishop, my former Bishop or my Stake Presidency. This does not include time spent by my associates, paralegals and secretaries--all on salary for which I'm responsible. My firm has been honored by the State Bar as the Pro Bono Law Firm of the Year.

I also make charitable donations outside of the Church (everything from my law school to the Utah County Food & Care Coalition to the International Rescue Committee).

The firm pays for my iPhone and my car and professional organization fees and educational courses. Most of my lunches are business related meetings, and appropriately picked up by the firm. I take home on a W-2 what the wife needs to cover the bills and no more.

My tithing situation is a real muddle. I feel far more like the pioneer-days farmer in regards to my "increase" then a modern wage-earner. There would be no way to give me an easy rule to calculate how much I should pay in tithing.

I probably error on the side of paying too little tithing and too much to other areas of the Church structure (from fast offerings to mission and temple funds to BYU).

I am absolutely comfortable standing before the Lord to be judged on my adherence to the law of sacrifice. I really don't know what the law of tithing is for me and don't really care too much. I am glad the Church does not try to call members to be judged on their payment of tithing--I personally wouldn't put up with a Church audit.

I cringed when I read that giving to a law school was charity.

[Uncle Ted]

I own a firm (sole shareholder) that is doing pretty well. Because I run the place and can do anything I want (in contrast to attorneys in firms that have more conflicts and onerous policies and procedures and have to have committees approve pro bono projects, etc) I do a lot of pro bono work. This year I have spent over 120 hours (according to my billing records) on pro bono clients referred to me by my Bishop, my former Bishop or my Stake Presidency. This does not include time spent by my associates, paralegals and secretaries--all on salary for which I'm responsible. My firm has been honored by the State Bar as the Pro Bono Law Firm of the Year.

I also make charitable donations outside of the Church (everything from my law school to the Utah County Food & Care Coalition to the International Rescue Committee).

The firm pays for my iPhone and my car and professional organization fees and educational courses. Most of my lunches are business related meetings, and appropriately picked up by the firm. I take home on a W-2 what the wife needs to cover the bills and no more.

My tithing situation is a real muddle. I feel far more like the pioneer-days farmer in regards to my "increase" then a modern wage-earner. There would be no way to give me an easy rule to calculate how much I should pay in tithing.

I probably error on the side of paying too little tithing and too much to other areas of the Church structure (from fast offerings to mission and temple funds to BYU).

I am absolutely comfortable standing before the Lord to be judged on my adherence to the law of sacrifice. I really don't know what the law of tithing is for me and don't really care too much. I am glad the Church does not try to call members to be judged on their payment of tithing--I personally wouldn't put up with a Church audit.

Maybe you should just offer your bishop some extra chickens when paying your tithing.

I am pretty much in the same boat. I am sole share owner of my consulting company which it pays for a lot of things that I can legally write off as a business expense. I also make donations outside tithing including BYU engineering and some foundations that I feel make the world a better place. I keep as much as I can in the company and only really take out what is needed to pay the bills. But some folks think I am keeping money from the Lord in doing this.

When this subject comes up I usually always like to ask if they pay tithing on the value of the benefits that their employer provides. For example, if their employer provides a very comprehensive health/dental insurance plan. Do they pay tithing on the fair market value of that insurance? Competitive benefit plans could effectively adding $1000's per month to someone's "increase". In fact, I have seen some estimates that competive benefit plans costs can add another 30% or so to the cost of an employee to a company. Given the rapid increase of things like health insurance costs and the lack of wage inflation in recent years 30% could be very well a low figure for a small business. So if you think about it most folks may be be keeping money from the Lord if you examine the details on all the ways on how they are compensated with some sort of additional "increase".

[creekster]

Maybe you should just offer your bishop some extra chickens when paying your tithing.

I am pretty much in the same boat. I am sole share owner of my consulting company which it pays for a lot of things that I can legally write off as a business expense. I also make donations outside tithing including BYU engineering and some foundations that I feel make the world a better place. I keep as much as I can in the company and only really take out what is needed to pay the bills. But some folks think I am keeping money from the Lord in doing this.

When this subject comes up I usually always like to ask if they pay tithing on the value of the benefits that their employer provides. For example, if their employer provides a very comprehensive health/dental insurance plan. Do they pay tithing on the fair market value of that insurance? Competitive benefit plans could effectively adding $1000's per month to someone's "increase". In fact, I have seen some estimates that competive benefit plans costs can add another 30% or so to the cost of an employee to a company. Given the rapid increase of things like health insurance costs and the lack of wage inflation in recent years 30% could be very well a low figure for a small business. So if you think about it most folks may be be keeping money from the Lord if you examine the details on all the ways on how they are compensated with some sort of additional "increase".

If your employer pays health, dental, vision, SDI and SS I am pretty sure 30% is low.