Mormonism as a paragon of progressivism

[LA Ute]

Something got me thinking about this aspect of the church. Of course, the word "progressive" has become, for many, a self-flattering word for what we used to call simply "liberal." Now, instead of simply having a particular worldview, liberals are in favor of progress, and those who disagree with them are not. A very cool rhetorical sleight of hand!

But I digress. It seems to me that the work of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young is the foundation on which the progress of the church and the salvation of mankind in the dispensation of the fullness of time was laid. The most significant progress - spiritual progress - is possible because of what they did.

Of course, I do not wish to detract from the transcendent significance of their personal faults. Brigham said wacky things. Joseph had an ego. And those are only the beginnings of their peccadillos!

Still, I like to note, now and then, the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, which, among other impacts, has changed millions of lives, including my own, for the better. The migration of the Saints to Utah and the settlement of the Great Basin, making places like BYU possible, was also pretty important to the progress of what many of us quaintly like to think of as the restored church of Jesus Christ.

Then again, maybe BYU should be renamed Wacky Old Cuss University. But "WOCU" is much tougher to spit out than "BYU."

Yes, ultimately I like to think fondly of Brigham and Joseph for what they did that makes my life and that of my family what they are. In fact, now that I think about it, I can't imagine my life without the faith and foundation that those two were so instrumental in bringing forth. Sounds like progress to me.

[ERCougar]

Something got me thinking about this aspect of the church. Of course, the word "progressive" has become, for many, a self-flattering word for what we used to call simply "liberal." Now, instead of simply having a particular worldview, liberals are in favor of progress, and those who disagree with them are not. A very cool rhetorical sleight of hand!

But I digress. It seems to me that the work of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young is the foundation on which the progress of the church and the salvation of mankind in the dispensation of the fullness of time was laid. The most significant progress - spiritual progress - is possible because of what they did.

Of course, I do not wish to detract from the transcendent significance of their personal faults. Brigham said wacky things. Joseph had an ego. And those are only the beginnings of their peccadillos!

Still, I like to note, now and then, the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, which, among other impacts, has changed millions of lives, including my own, for the better. The migration of the Saints to Utah and the settlement of the Great Basin, making places like BYU possible, was also pretty important to the progress of what many of us quaintly like to think of as the restored church of Jesus Christ.

Then again, maybe BYU should be renamed Wacky Old Cuss University. But "WOCU" is much tougher to spit out than "BYU."

Yes, ultimately I like to think fondly of Brigham and Joseph for what they did that makes my life and that of my family what they are. In fact, now that I think about it, I can't imagine my life without the faith and foundation that those two were so instrumental in bringing forth. Sounds like progress to me.

Please take your positive attitude of gratitude somewhere else. This kind of crap doesn't belong in the foyer.

[LA Ute]

Please take your positive attitude of gratitude somewhere else. This kind of crap doesn't belong in the foyer.

It gives me an opportunity to be unconventional here.

[Solon]

It gives me an opportunity to be unconventional here.

Nice article in today's Spectrum (St. George, UT newspaper) about Liberal Mormons. I believe you can read it for free for a couple of days.

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

[CardiacCoug]

Nice article in today's Spectrum (St. George, UT newspaper) about Liberal Mormons. I believe you can read it for free for a couple of days.

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

I can't stand comments like this (from the article):

“I’m a Democrat because I believe in Jesus Christ,” she says. “I believe in his example. I believe in what he taught about love and compassion.”

Good hell, what is loving and compassionate about saddling our kids and grandkids with incredible amounts of debt for ever-expanding government programs? That just seems selfish and wrong to me.

[Solon]

I can't stand comments like this (from the article):

Good hell, what is loving and compassionate about saddling our kids and grandkids with incredible amounts of debt for ever-expanding government programs? That just seems selfish and wrong to me.

You sound like my Tea-Party uncle who believes that the solution to world hunger is to baptize everyone Mormon. Then, Fast Offerings would take care of the poor, not taxes & government programs.

[The_Douger]

That isn't what he's suggesting at all.

[CardiacCoug]

You sound like my Tea-Party uncle who believes that the solution to world hunger is to baptize everyone Mormon. Then, Fast Offerings would take care of the poor, not taxes & government programs.

Funny. I think your uncle would disagree with my position that we should just have single government payer health care. I think we need government programs for the poor.

I'm just saying that I don't at all buy the argument that continuing to fund entitlement programs that we're BORROWING MONEY to pay for is compassionate or Christlike at all.

If your parents ran up a bunch of credit card debt to give money to charities and then asked you to pay those bills would you praise them as compassionate?

Seems to me like that's a decent analogy for what Republicans and Democrats alike have been doing and continue to do over the last several decades.

[Solon]

That isn't what he's suggesting at all.

I didn't say that's what he's suggesting. Only that Cardiac's extremist characterization of the Democratic position reminds me of the extremist opinions of my crazy uncle.

But thanks for contributing. That was a really insightful viewpoint, Douger!

PS - I'm not a democrat.

[CardiacCoug]

I didn't say that's what he's suggesting. Only that Cardiac's extremist characterization of the Democratic position reminds me of the extremist opinions of my crazy uncle.

Sure I'm jumping to a conclusion about what that person in the article meant by that statement. But why do you think some Democrats (my wife included) assume that traditionally Democratic positions are inherently more Christlike than traditionally Republican positions?

[Solon]

Funny. I think your uncle would disagree with my position that we should just have single government payer health care. I think we need government programs for the poor.

I'm just saying that I don't at all buy the argument that continuing to fund entitlement programs that we're BORROWING MONEY to pay for is compassionate or Christlike at all.

If your parents ran up a bunch of credit card debt to give money to charities and then asked you to pay those bills would you praise them as compassionate?

Seems to me like that's a decent analogy for what Republicans and Democrats alike have been doing and continue to do over the last several decades.

Oh, I know Cardiac. I'm just pulling your chain. I just thought it was an extremist characterization of the Democrats' philosophy towards the disadvantaged.

Both parties are fiscally incompetent.

[Solon]

Sure I'm jumping to a conclusion about what that person in the article meant by that statement. But why do you think some Democrats (my wife included) assume that traditionally Democratic positions are inherently more Christlike than traditionally Republican positions?

Well, the last thing I want to do is wade into a discussion of what Democrats believe vs. Republicans, since I think both are slippery.

I suppose that
Republicans would claim the Christian high ground regarding abortion.
Democrats would claim it regarding protecting threatened classes like women, racial minorities, homosexuals, etc.

But if someone sees Jesus' teachings more in one party than the other, good for him/her. However, I think it's probably for reasons other than irresponsible government spending.

[The_Douger]

I didn't say that's what he's suggesting. Only that Cardiac's extremist characterization of the Democratic position reminds me of the extremist opinions of my crazy uncle.

But thanks for contributing. That was a really insightful viewpoint, Douger!

PS - I'm not a democrat.

Did you like that? I thought it brought a lot, frankly.

His characterization isn't even close to the one you suggested, and his is much more the reality we have the potential to be living right now.

But agreed, both parties are fiscal idiots that have their sacred cows.

[LA Ute]

Man, I try to create a TIC Foyer thread (almost a year ago) and you guys turn it into a political discussion.

[CardiacCoug]

Man, I try to create a TIC Foyer thread (almost a year ago) and you guys turn it into a political discussion.

I guess it's that time of year. I was going to apologize to you for the threadjack but I think the statute of limitations has expired.