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  • Women, Ritual and Authority

    My esteemed BIL co-hosts a monthly study group in the OC that features Mormonism-related presentations from scholars, including amateur and professional historians, within and outside the Church. Recently, they had a presentation from Jonathan Stapley concerning the above-referenced topic that sounded very interesting. Here's a partial summary from Russ Frandsen, which I'll quote rather than paraphrase. I've omitted portions of the summary relating to the Church's early view of medicine, and a discussion about gifts of the spirit. Sill, a lot of interesting points here...

    Jonathan Stapley was our presenter. He has a PhD in chemistry, and he is president of a start-up in Seattle. After graduate school, he started to study Mormon History.

    Jonathan’s topic was “WOMEN, RITUAL and AUTHORITY”. He began his discussion by pointing out that the gift of healing is among the charismatic gifts bestowed on all believers, as indicated in the letters of Paul and in the Doctrine and Covenants. These are charismatic gifts apart from the Priesthood. Joseph Smith wanted the Latter-day Saints endowed with power to make these gifts efficacious. The topic created quite a bit of discussion about women and the Priesthood, about the nature of the priesthood, and about the temple....

    His discussion of healing as a gift of the spirit, and not of the Priesthood, was very informative. He described the practice of laying on of hands and healing, including anointing, by women from the beginning of the Church to about 1920. He indicated that up until 1968, the Relief Society Book of Instruction contained a section on healing by women. He described the “healing rooms” in the temple, where women gave healing blessings in the temple into the 20th century. They were discontinued as the temples became busier. He described the move away from healing administrations by women partly as an emphasis on encouraging a greater male role in the church, rather than a decision to circumscribe the roles of women. In the late 19th century and early 20th century, only about 15% of men came actively to Sunday meetings. Heber J. Grant placed an emphasis on awakening men to greater participation in the church. This greater call to duty to men may have had the effect impacting activities previously carried on by women, including healing administrations.


    One wonders if we'll see a return to more active female participation in healing administrations. Let's keep those attendance numbers up, brethren.

  • #2
    Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    My esteemed BIL co-hosts a monthly study group in the OC that features Mormonism-related presentations from scholars, including amateur and professional historians, within and outside the Church. Recently, they had a presentation from Jonathan Stapley concerning the above-referenced topic that sounded very interesting. Here's a partial summary from Russ Frandsen, which I'll quote rather than paraphrase. I've omitted portions of the summary relating to the Church's early view of medicine, and a discussion about gifts of the spirit. Sill, a lot of interesting points here...

    Jonathan Stapley was our presenter. He has a PhD in chemistry, and he is president of a start-up in Seattle. After graduate school, he started to study Mormon History.

    Jonathan’s topic was “WOMEN, RITUAL and AUTHORITY”. He began his discussion by pointing out that the gift of healing is among the charismatic gifts bestowed on all believers, as indicated in the letters of Paul and in the Doctrine and Covenants. These are charismatic gifts apart from the Priesthood. Joseph Smith wanted the Latter-day Saints endowed with power to make these gifts efficacious. The topic created quite a bit of discussion about women and the Priesthood, about the nature of the priesthood, and about the temple....

    His discussion of healing as a gift of the spirit, and not of the Priesthood, was very informative. He described the practice of laying on of hands and healing, including anointing, by women from the beginning of the Church to about 1920. He indicated that up until 1968, the Relief Society Book of Instruction contained a section on healing by women. He described the “healing rooms” in the temple, where women gave healing blessings in the temple into the 20th century. They were discontinued as the temples became busier. He described the move away from healing administrations by women partly as an emphasis on encouraging a greater male role in the church, rather than a decision to circumscribe the roles of women. In the late 19th century and early 20th century, only about 15% of men came actively to Sunday meetings. Heber J. Grant placed an emphasis on awakening men to greater participation in the church. This greater call to duty to men may have had the effect impacting activities previously carried on by women, including healing administrations.


    One wonders if we'll see a return to more active female participation in healing administrations. Let's keep those attendance numbers up, brethren.
    Was the early view of medicine similar to BY's early opinion of lawyers?

    I'm somewhat surprised by the number of LDS women I know who seem uncomfortable with the thought of giving a healing blessing (or even discussing the possibility of it). Maybe this is due in part to the deemphasizing of LDS historical practices that differ from current-day traditions. Maybe my sample isn't representative.
    "What are you prepared to do?" - Jimmy Malone

    "What choice?" - Abe Petrovsky

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    • #3
      I seem to remember one of those Joseph-Smith-Building-only movies having a pioneer woman laying hands on her oxen and giving them a blessing, and they got up and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked.
      "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
      The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
        I seem to remember one of those Joseph-Smith-Building-only movies having a pioneer woman laying hands on her oxen and giving them a blessing, and they got up and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked.
        I remember that.
        Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
        God forgives many things for an act of mercy
        Alessandro Manzoni

        Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

        pelagius

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
          I seem to remember one of those Joseph-Smith-Building-only movies having a pioneer woman laying hands on her oxen and giving them a blessing, and they got up and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked.
          Originally posted by pellegrino View Post
          I remember that.
          It was Legacy.
          Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

          Dig your own grave, and save!

          "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

          "I know that you are one of the cool and 'edgy' BYU fans" -- Wally

          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by falafel View Post
            It was Legacy.
            so they named the theater after the first film they showed there?

            Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
            God forgives many things for an act of mercy
            Alessandro Manzoni

            Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

            pelagius

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pellegrino View Post
              I remember that.
              I think Mary fielding did that and it was described in the Joseph f smith teaching gs manual as I recall.
              PLesa excuse the tpyos.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by creekster View Post
                I think Mary fielding did that and it was described in the Joseph f smith teaching gs manual as I recall.
                Oh, it's definitely from taken from a remembrance by Joseph F. smith about his mom, Mary fielding. The downside is that there appears to be a very high probability that the account isn't accurate; specifically, it looks like Mary Fielding actually asked her brother and another Elder to bless the Ox. See, Lavina Fielding Anderson article on Mary Fielding in Dialogue (I think early 80s ... I think it's called something like "Mary Fielding: Her Ox Goes Marching On").
                Last edited by pelagius; 10-25-2011, 09:46 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by pelagius View Post
                  Oh, it's definitely from taken from a remembrance by Joseph F. smith about his mom, Mary fielding. The downside is that there appears to be a very high probability that the account isn't accurate; specifically, it looks like Mary Fielding actually asked her brother and another Elder to bless the Ox. See, Lavina Fielding Anderson article on Mary Fielding in Dialogue (I think early 80s ... I think it's called something like "Mary Fielding: Her Ox Goes Marching On").
                  Sorry, but I've seen it with mine own two eyes. We have the DVD.

                  EDIT: I stand corrected. Moliere is right, so pelagius must be as well.
                  Last edited by myboynoah; 10-25-2011, 09:57 PM.
                  Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                  For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                  Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                    I seem to remember one of those Joseph-Smith-Building-only movies having a pioneer woman laying hands on her oxen and giving them a blessing, and they got up and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked.
                    Are you sure it wasn't Just a prayer while she knelt. Ext to the oxen? I don't remember any specific laying on of the hands, but it's been a while since I've seen the movie.
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                      Sorry, but I've seen it with mine own two eyes. We have the DVD.

                      EDIT: I stand corrected. Moliere is right, so pelagius must be as well.
                      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      Are you sure it wasn't Just a prayer while she knelt. Ext to the oxen? I don't remember any specific laying on of the hands, but it's been a while since I've seen the movie.
                      Not sure. I haven't seen it in about 10 years, but I did have the impression that it was a laying-on-of-hands. Apparently mbn has proven me incorrect.
                      "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                      The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                        Moliere is right, so pelagius must be as well.
                        I wish it always went like this
                        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                        • #13
                          I've been talking about this stuff for years....
                          We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post
                            I've been talking about this stuff for years....
                            Me too....Got an uppity woman? Give her the priesthood.
                            "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                            -Turtle
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Surfah View Post
                              Me too....Got an uppity woman? Give her the priesthood.
                              That or a pet ox.

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