Would Christianity have survived without Constantine?

[Scott R Nelson]

When I was up and wide awake in the middle of the night (an all too frequent occurrence for me) I watched a show about Constantine (they pronounced the last part like "fine", not "teen"). That got me to wondering about how he turned a lot more people into "Christians" by dropping the Roman gods and declaring Christianity as the Roman religion. I know that the LDS church teaches that the apostasy was basically complete by the time of of Constantine, but I'm wondering if Christianity would have survived without his "help".

Do any of you church historians have opinions on this subject?

[Katy Lied]

Dont remember where I read it, but a new theory is out that he did not intend to turn his state into a christian kingdom, that his proclamation to do so was forged by the christian monks on his deathbed.

[happyone]

I maybe up in the night here, but I think the more important thing he did was end the offical persecution of the Christians. By doing that he probably ensured the survival of Christianity. It might not have grown as fast, but IMHO it would have survived. IIRC by the time Constanine siezed power (Malvern Bridge in 312AD) a significant portion of the Empire was already Christian.

[Jacob]

Christianity had already survived 300 years of intense persecution. I don't see any reason to think it wouldn't have survived absent Constantine's proclamations. That it survived Jesus' death is a bigger wonder.

Dont remember where I read it, but a new theory is out that he did not intend to turn his state into a christian kingdom, that his proclamation to do so was forged by the christian monks on his deathbed.

You may be getting a few things mixed up here. There is no doubt that Constantine made Christianity the official religion. No doubt that he supressed the roman/pagan cults No doubt that he sponsored several ecumenical councils during his reign to unify the disparate groups of Christians, to clarify doctrines, and to resolve disputes among them. History shows that Constantine's taking up of the Christian cause came even before he became Emperor of the undivided empire.

However, it has been reported that he finally converted himself to Christianity and/or was baptized on his death bed. This may have been the myth that you are referring to.

[Solon]

Constantine's Edict of Milan ended the persecutions of Galerius/Diocletian that had gone on for over a decade in various parts of the Empire. As the son of a Christian (Helena), Constantine had a strong interest in Christianity. But he was also a strong proponent of the cult of Sol Invictus, or unconquerable sun (this is why Christmas is celebrated Dec. 25 - that was the Sun's birthday after the Solstice). Constantine's decision to receive baptism on his deathbed was not deathbed repentance but instead a standard practice of the day - less time to get into trouble before meeting one's Maker. More than anything, Constantine viewed Christianity as a way to unify a fragmented and fragmenting empire. Already under Diocletian the Empire had been subdivided into four parts. The need to return to traditional Roman values was the justification for Galerius & Diocletian to persecute Christians. Constantine looked to Christianity to do the same thing - unite the people in a common cause. This is why he was so uptight about orthodoxy.

Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of Rome (that was Theodosius in 395). What he did do, though, was make it the unofficial religion of Rome. Constantine's leadership as the self-proclaimed "thirteenth apostle", helped formulate a sense of orthodoxy through the various "ecumenical" (from the Greek oikoumene, meaning "the whole world") councils. Constantine squared off against Arians and other undesirable heretics. In this sense, Constantine saved Christianity from hopelessly splintering even more.

So, yes, he saved Christianity from splintering into a million sub-groups, but no - Christianity had survived for 300 years without him. One of Constantine's greatest contributions to Christian history is the writing of religious historian Eusebius of Caesarea, an invaluable source for understanding the first three centuries of Christianity(-ies)

As for the Donation of Constantine, that's a forged document that was exposed in the Renaissance. It was used in the middle ages to justify papal power over secular affairs. It didn't exist during Constantine's time.

PS - It was the Battle of Milvian Bridge where Constantine supposedly had his vision of the cross and the 'in hoc vinces'. The story of this miracle grew richer over time.

[pellegrino]

Constantine's Edict of Milan ended the persecutions of Galerius/Diocletian that had gone on for over a decade in various parts of the Empire. As the son of a Christian (Helena), Constantine had a strong interest in Christianity. But he was also a strong proponent of the cult of Sol Invictus, or unconquerable sun (this is why Christmas is celebrated Dec. 25 - that was the Sun's birthday after the Solstice). Constantine's decision to receive baptism on his deathbed was not deathbed repentance but instead a standard practice of the day - less time to get into trouble before meeting one's Maker. More than anything, Constantine viewed Christianity as a way to unify a fragmented and fragmenting empire. Already under Diocletian the Empire had been subdivided into four parts. The need to return to traditional Roman values was the justification for Galerius & Diocletian to persecute Christians. Constantine looked to Christianity to do the same thing - unite the people in a common cause. This is why he was so uptight about orthodoxy.

Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of Rome (that was Theodosius in 395). What he did do, though, was make it the unofficial religion of Rome. Constantine's leadership as the self-proclaimed "thirteenth apostle", helped formulate a sense of orthodoxy through the various "ecumenical" (from the Greek oikoumene, meaning "the whole world") councils. Constantine squared off against Arians and other undesirable heretics. In this sense, Constantine saved Christianity from hopelessly splintering even more.

So, yes, he saved Christianity from splintering into a million sub-groups, but no - Christianity had survived for 300 years without him. One of Constantine's greatest contributions to Christian history is the writing of religious historian Eusebius of Caesarea, an invaluable source for understanding the first three centuries of Christianity(-ies)

As for the Donation of Constantine, that's a forged document that was exposed in the Renaissance. It was used in the middle ages to justify papal power over secular affairs. It didn't exist during Constantine's time.

PS - It was the Battle of Milvian Bridge where Constantine supposedly had his vision of the cross and the 'in hoc vinces'. The story of this miracle grew richer over time.

talk about a thread killer.

[Jarid in Cedar]

talk about a thread killer.

[YOhio]

talk about a thread killer.

pellegrino

[pellegrino]

seriously though, what else is there to say on the subject? Solon has spoken, does anyone have the cajones or even the ability to contradict him? I don't.

[Moliere]

seriously though, what else is there to say on the subject? Solon has spoken, does anyone have the cajones or even the ability to contradict him? I don't.

Constantine's Edict of Milan ended the persecutions of Galerius/Diocletian that had gone on for over a decade in various parts of the Empire. As the son of a Christian (Helena), Constantine had a strong interest in Christianity. But he was also a strong proponent of the cult of Sol Invictus, or unconquerable sun (this is why Christmas is celebrated Dec. 25 - that was the Sun's birthday after the Solstice). Constantine's decision to receive baptism on his deathbed was not deathbed repentance but instead a standard practice of the day - less time to get into trouble before meeting one's Maker. More than anything, Constantine viewed Christianity as a way to unify a fragmented and fragmenting empire. Already under Diocletian the Empire had been subdivided into four parts. The need to return to traditional Roman values was the justification for Galerius & Diocletian to persecute Christians. Constantine looked to Christianity to do the same thing - unite the people in a common cause. This is why he was so uptight about orthodoxy.

Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of Rome (that was Theodosius in 395 27 February 380). What he did do, though, was make it the unofficial religion of Rome. Constantine's leadership as the self-proclaimed "thirteenth apostle", helped formulate a sense of orthodoxy through the various "ecumenical" (from the Greek oikoumene, meaning "the whole world") councils. Constantine squared off against Arians and other undesirable heretics. In this sense, Constantine saved Christianity from hopelessly splintering even more.

So, yes, he saved Christianity from splintering into a million sub-groups, but no - Christianity had survived for 300 years without him. One of Constantine's greatest contributions to Christian history is the writing of religious historian Eusebius of Caesarea, an invaluable source for understanding the first three centuries of Christianity(-ies)

As for the Donation of Constantine, that's a forged document that was exposed in the Renaissance. It was used in the middle ages to justify papal power over secular affairs. It didn't exist during Constantine's time.

PS - It was the Battle of Milvian Bridge where Constantine supposedly had his vision of the cross and the 'in hoc vinces'. The story of this miracle grew richer over time.

...

[Solon]

...

Good catch. Theodosius died in 395.

I'm not great with dates.

Sorry if this really was a thread-killer. there's plenty to discuss regarding Constantine, esp. from an LDS point of view (Arianism and all that)

[SeattleUte]

There are no great men.--Tolstoy

[All-American]

seriously though, what else is there to say on the subject? Solon has spoken, does anyone have the cajones or even the ability to contradict him? I don't.

"Oikoumene" (short for "οἰκουμένη γῆ") means the [known] "inhabited" world rather than the "whole" world. Antartican penguins need not apply.

[Moliere]

Good catch. Theodosius died in 395.

I'm not great with dates.

Sorry if this really was a thread-killer. there's plenty to discuss regarding Constantine, esp. from an LDS point of view (Arianism and all that)

I used the SU research tool to find that one and before your post I thought Theodosius was the oldest son of an AA doctor. I really do enjoy our posts as I always learn something from them.

[Solon]

"Oikoumene" (short for "οἰκουμένη γῆ") means the [known] "inhabited" world rather than the "whole" world. Antartican penguins need not apply.

nice try.

loved moliere's line about the Huxtables.