Anti-Mormonism is the prejudice of our age

[LA Ute]

I agree with you LA Ute!

Also, I wonder if democrats' bias against Mormons could be explained by the fact that the Mormon Church has a reputation for being conservative, anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-feminist, etc. So, democrats automatically associate "Mormon" with rightwing conservatism and thus the gut response is no, I wouldn't vote for one.

I think that's pretty much it.

[RobinFinderson]

I am not sure his phrasing is that helpful. Try these on for size:

It's not that I don't like Jews, its just that I want someone with my same world view.

Its not that I don't like Hispanics, its just that I want someone with my same world view.

Its not that I don't like [group], its just that I want someone with my same world view.

This view point is only legitimate, IMO, if you can identify the 'world view' difference that matters. IOW, if you want to say that scientologists or Mormons are idiots for believing what they believe and you would refuse to vote for an idiot, that might work, but only if the basis for your assertion reflects a rational distinction and not an irrational bias. Using the recent Perry kerfuffle as an example, it is hard for me to imagine how a Baptist could ever criticize a Mormon on the basis of having a crazy religion, or of having an unacceptable world view, given the nature of the baptists' own world view and religious beliefs. So I think NS's formulation may be a starting point but it is not an answer.

That said, I agree NS should post here more often.

Exactly. NS just soft-pedaled bigotry. No surprise that JIC 'loved how you phrased it.'

If you think that someone's world view is a concern, you should be able to articulate why. If you can't, then maybe it is one of those legitimate bad feelings people get sometimes from picking up on subtle cues that register subconsciously. If that is the case, it is probably best to keep it to yourself, because an honest person should also recognize the possibility that the 'bad feeling' is just a personal prejudice.

[RobinFinderson]

To me the question is relevance. A candidate's religion is almost always irrelevant to his/her qualifications to serve. Think of Washington the deist, Lincoln the non-religious, Taft the Unitarian, Kennedy the Catholic, Nixon the Quaker. Regardless of how you feel about those presidents, in none of those cases was the politician's religion relevant to his performance as president.

To say you won't vote for a candidate simply because he is a [fill in the religion] is bigotry, or something very close to it. It's necessary first to determine if the person's religious beliefs are relevant to how he or she would govern. I suspect that for an unbigoted liberal Democrat Mitt Romney's and Harry Reid's political views are more important than their Mormonism in deciding whether to support them.

Interestingly, a Pew survey found that a candidate's Mormonism is a bigger problem for liberals than it is for conservatives:

Liberal democrats helped elect Mitt to be governor of a heavily democratic state.

In the minds of many liberal democrats, the Mormon church became a legitimate political player when it started to throw piles of cash at the gay marriage issue. It would be interesting to see what a Pew poll would have said about liberal bias against Mormons before church's reputation was entangled with opposition to gay marriage.

[old_gregg]

The issue isn't that people won't vote for a Mormon for the fact that they're a Mormon; it's the extreme discrepancy between willingess to vote for a Mormon versus some other sect. Catholicism and Judaism are no less wacky in terms of hierarchy of authority, and disparaging either would rightly lead to a candidate being crucified (heh) by the media and voters.

[LA Ute]

Liberal democrats helped elect Mitt to be governor of a heavily democratic state.

In the minds of many liberal democrats, the Mormon church became a legitimate political player when it started to throw piles of cash at the gay marriage issue. It would be interesting to see what a Pew poll would have said about liberal bias against Mormons before church's reputation was entangled with opposition to gay marriage.

Polls back in 2006 and 2007 were about the same, IIRC. Prop 8 may well have cemented the existing perception, however.

[Jacob]

I think this is a great and fair point, and I'm with JIC, you phrased it perfectly and don't post here enough. However, I don't think you'd be out in the public space stating reasons for why you wouldn't vote for a Scientoligist and then misrepresenting what that person stood for...which seems to be at least a fraction of what is going on with those speaking out against Romney.

I'm not so sure. If you exclude any adherent of Scientology from consideration, then you are not really interested in that individual's "worldview" you are attributing to him/her the many biases you have against the religion in general. And that's what's happening with Romney. And which of us knows Scientology well enough to discuss their beliefs without misrepresenting (even unintentionally) what an individual candidate actually believes? About as many as we mightfindon a Scientology board who can accurately portray mormon belief.

I am not sure his phrasing is that helpful. Try these on for size:

It's not that I don't like Jews, its just that I want someone with my same world view.

Its not that I don't like Hispanics, its just that I want someone with my same world view.

Its not that I don't like [group], its just that I want someone with my same world view.

This view point is only legitimate, IMO, if you can identify the 'world view' difference that matters. IOW, if you want to say that scientologists or Mormons are idiots for believing what they believe and you would refuse to vote for an idiot, that might work, but only if the basis for your assertion reflects a rational distinction and not an irrational bias. Using the recent Perry kerfuffle as an example, it is hard for me to imagine how a Baptist could ever criticize a Mormon on the basis of having a crazy religion, or of having an unacceptable world view, given the nature of the baptists' own world view and religious beliefs. So I think NS's formulation may be a starting point but it is not an answer.

That said, I agree NS should post here more often.

I agree with this.

To me the question is relevance. A candidate's religion is almost always irrelevant to his/her qualifications to serve. Think of Washington the deist, Lincoln the non-religious, Taft the Unitarian, Kennedy the Catholic, Nixon the Quaker. Regardless of how you feel about those presidents, in none of those cases was the politician's religion relevant to his performance as president.

To say you won't vote for a candidate simply because he is a [fill in the religion] is bigotry, or something very close to it. It's necessary first to determine if the person's religious beliefs are relevant to how he or she would govern. I suspect that for an unbigoted liberal Democrat Mitt Romney's and Harry Reid's political views are more important than their Mormonism in deciding whether to support them.

Interestingly, a Pew survey found that a candidate's Mormonism is a bigger problem for liberals than it is for conservatives:

I agree with this even more. Though I'll add that religion is generally irrelevant to whether I will vote for a candidate.

[SeattleUte]

The issue isn't that people won't vote for a Mormon for the fact that they're a Mormon; it's the extreme discrepancy between willingess to vote for a Mormon versus some other sect. Catholicism and Judaism are no less wacky in terms of hierarchy of authority, and disparaging either would rightly lead to a candidate being crucified (heh) by the media and voters.

You probably won't see a Catholic or certainly a Jewish president in your lifetime. There has only ever been one of the former elected--51 years ago by a razor thin margin--and none of the latter.

Stopy crying about bigotry, Mormons. It's a small violin. On one hand, you and Evangelists look very much alike to non-participants in either movement. The fact you hate one another is really kind of funny. On the other hand, it's not like Mormonism hasn't many times behaved like a cult ("when the Prophet speaks the argument ceases") or held some harmful (inter alia, racist and sexist and homophobic) or ridiculous beliefs for which it's failed to atone.

I wouldn't vote for an Orthodox Jew on the basis of his archaic world view. I wouldn't support a Mormon who similarly regarded the Old Testament as akin to a history book on similar grounds.

[il Padrino Ute]

You probably won't see a Catholic or certainly a Jewish president in your lifetime. There has only ever been one of the former elected--51 years ago by a razor thin margin--and none of the latter.

Stopy crying about bigotry, Mormons. It's a small violin. On one hand, you and Evangelists look very much alike to non-participants in either movement. The fact you hate one another is really kind of funny. On the other hand, it's not like Mormonism hasn't many times behaved like a cult ("when the Prophet speaks the argument ceases") or held some harmful (inter alia, racist and sexist and homophobic) or ridiculous beliefs for which it's failed to atone.

I wouldn't vote for an Orthodox Jew on the basis of his archaic world view. I wouldn't support a Mormon who similarly regarded the Old Testament as akin to a history book on similar grounds.

I'll make you a deal, SU. I'll stop calling you a bigot when you stop posting about Mormonism. Sound good?

[RobinFinderson]

bigot |ˈbigət|
noun
a person who is bigoted : religious bigots. See note at zealot .

ORIGIN late 16th cent. (denoting a superstitious religious hypocrite): from French, of unknown origin.

See? It isn't helpful.

[MarkGrace]

Also, I wonder if democrats' bias against Mormons could be explained by the fact that the Mormon Church has a reputation for being conservative, anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-feminist, etc. So, democrats automatically associate "Mormon" with rightwing conservatism and thus the gut response is no, I wouldn't vote for one.

True, but most of the bias, or so-called bigotry, discussed in the article is being generated by the Christian Right. I don't follow this stuff as much as everyone else (thanks, poly sci degree!), but that seems to be my impression.

[NorthwestUteFan]

And yet somehow this doesn't seem to be an issue for Harry Reid.

Then again, perhaps he wouldn't be able to win a national election.

[LA Ute]

True, but most of the bias, or so-called bigotry, discussed in the article is being generated by the Christian Right.

I'm no fan of the Christian Right, but in the Pew poll 41% of self-identified liberal Democrats said they would be less likely to support a Mormon candidate, more than any other demographic in the poll. Only 34% of white evangelicals report themselves "less likely" to vote for a Mormon for president. 23% of Republicans are less likely to vote for a Mormon, and 31% of Democrats.

[falafel]

I'm no fan of the Christian Right, but in the Pew poll 41% of self-identified liberal Democrats said they would be less likely to support a Mormon candidate, more than any other demographic in the poll. Only 34% of white evangelicals report themselves "less likely" to vote for a Mormon for president. 23% of Republicans are less likely to vote for a Mormon, and 31% of Democrats.

Well, its more than likely that a mormon candidate is going to conservative, sometimes very conservative, so its no surprise that democrats would not be likely to vote for that person.

[creekster]

Well, its more than likely that a mormon candidate is going to conservative, sometimes very conservative, so its no surprise that democrats would not be likely to vote for that person.

SIgned, harry reid.

[falafel]

SIgned, harry reid.

Why would Harry Reid say that?

To every rule there is an exception.