To the non-believers: Would you say the BoM contains true principles?

[Portland Ute]

For those of you who either believe the BoM is a fabrication, would you agree that it contains good and true principles?

How about those of you that are unsure if it is revealed from God via J. Smith i.e. divine?

I know what the true believers will say, I'm curious what those that either are unsure or do not believe in the divinity of the Book of Mormon will say.

[Ma'ake]

I would say it contains truths and wisdom. But there's also some troubling aspects, starting with Nephi being commanded to decapitate Laban. The violence is like the Old Testament. I share Krakauer's disdain for violence and religion.

But I believe there were probably truths and wisdom from the religion of Thor, as well. It was essentially humans in that region at that time trying to connect with the Devine.

I can testify of the truths and goodness in modern day Shoshone Native American religion, with a spirit as powerful and loving as any other religion.

I don't think the BOM has to be literal to have truths. If the LDS theology is parsed too finely and taken too literally, some of the core message gets corrupted, or is otherwise subjected to scrutiny which diminishes the simple message.

We construct paradigm's that are often very limited, and fragile, while simultaneously complex and very detailed. For example, what to make of the evidence suggesting Neanderthals had religion? Not much room to accommodate that notion.

[jay santos]

For those of you who either believe the BoM is a fabrication, would you agree that it contains good and true principles?

How about those of you that are unsure if it is revealed from God via J. Smith i.e. divine?

I know what the true believers will say, I'm curious what those that either are unsure or do not believe in the divinity of the Book of Mormon will say.

The Book of Mormon doctrine is basic, trinitarian Christianity.

[taekwondave]

I don't know what I think of the Book of Mormon's "coming forth" anymore, so I think I probably qualify to answer this question.

Here's the thing: In our Mormon world it is common to use the word "true" a lot. I'm not a fan of that. Does the Book of Mormon contain "true principles"? What do you mean? Like can a person derive wisdom from it? Because a person can derive wisdom from a tree if he thinks about it hard enough, you know?

For example: I've learned a lot about how NOT to be a father from Lehi. I don't think the writers intended me to learn that lesson, but I did, you know? I learned a lot about how to be the world's worst douche bag brother from Nephi, but obviously that wasn't what Nephi was going for when he told me how awesome he was and how he never ever, ever, ever, ever broke any of God's commandments (despite murder, which was totally justified apparently, since Nephi TOLD us the Spirit commanded it, haha) and how that meant he should be king and shit. The guy was a tool bag and an half, and I can't wait to read the book of Lemuel, or the memoirs of Laman to hear the side of the story. Now THAT would be enlightening.

Those "truths" are "contained" in the Book of Mormon, you know what I mean? But I don't think any casual reader of the book would think that was the message the authors were trying to get out there. But if the book of Mormon is real (or as most would say, "true"; specifically referring to its truthfulness as an actual historical record, as JS claimed) then you have to account for human bias, and you can't just take everything at the writers' word. You have to read between the lines if you want to get anything even close to the true story.

So maybe you are referring to the sermons in the book. Are they "true"? Well, sure. I mean, if those people actually existed and they actually said those things, then yeah, they are "true" in that sense. But that doesn't mean they are always RIGHT. For example, I think that King Benjamin gave a really heartfelt speech from that tower, and I think HE really believed what he was saying, but I can't help feeling that despite all his yapping about giving to the poor, that he had never actually been poor and therefore didn't realize what real harm the little handouts he was advocating can actually do to a person. I HAVE lived as a poor person, even as a homeless person at one time (granted, by choice, but most of them did too, as it turned out) and I DO know the debilitating effects of free handouts, and so I think that although what he said sounded pretty and was very "PC" both then and now, it was complete bullshit. He missed the mark by a mile on that speech imo. So even though he may have been advocating love, which I think is a "true" or "effective" or "valuable" ideal, I think the way he suggested showing it was completely off base. And I don't think we would be "wise" to go give money to beggars simply because King Benjamin, who appears to be one of the "good guys" in the Book of Mormon, a book that we "know" is "true", said so. If you're wrong, I don't care what author (in this case it was apparently Mormon) tries to paint you as a protagonist. You're still wrong.

How do I put this...

Wisdom exists... out "there." And we can learn it from... anywhere, if we're looking for it. And the Book of Mormon is chalk full of stories and sermons that we can learn from, both by what they say that we find we believe and by what they say that we realize we don't believe, also what they say about what happened and what they DIDN'T say that happened... but obviously did. So yes, I believe the Book of Mormon "contains true principles" but, like Ma'ake seemed to express above, that's not really that big of a deal.

[woot]

I don't think this is a useful question. If it's not what it says it is, then it doesn't matter whether it contains good principles; I challenge anyone to find a book that doesn't.

That being said, I don't think the BoM is evil, per se. It's just not particularly insightful, and the belief that it is the literal word of God could serve to make its irrational and violent bits a greater detriment to its readers than they otherwise would be. Divorced from its pretense as actual history or as scripture, it's just a boring and poorly-written story without any particular value. If one is looking for wholesome or life-changing principles, I reckon there are hundreds of self-help books published every year that would be more useful.

[Joe Public]

I don't think this is a useful question. If it's not what it says it is, then it doesn't matter whether it contains good principles; I challenge anyone to find a book that doesn't.

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[SeattleUte]

the true principles it has are not original. It also has some loathsome ideas.

[RobinFinderson]

Sure it contains true principles. I feel like Abinadi in King Noah's court every time I post in the religious section... or Samuel the Lamanite on the wall. Those two stories are cool. The story of Korihor... not so cool.