Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Church Finances in England

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
  • #1

    Church Finances in England

    Unlike in the US, the UK requires all charities to file financial statements. This link shows the financial statements for the LDS Church for the last five years (the last filing was for 2009 so they are little old).

    Charity-commision.gov.uk

    In a cursory review, a few things stand out...

    1. The Church received/earned a very substantial amount in 2006. The amount was 263,381,000 pounds (roughly $500,000,000 dollars), which was about 7 times the amount in the year previous and the year after. I wonder what this was from? I assume that a wealthy member may have left their estate to the church, but who knows...

    2. Outside of the 2006 aberration, it shows that Church income has been dropping over the last 5 years while expenses have been increasing. In fact the church actually lost money in 2008 & 2009. Maybe I am reading too much into those numbers and money is just being transfered somewhere else. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues when they post the 2010 numbers in a couple months.

    3. It appears that nepotism is still running strong in the church as Joseph B. Wirthlin's son is a trustee.

    Any faithful thoughts or rabid speculation on the above information?
    "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
    Unlike in the US, the UK requires all charities to file financial statements. This link shows the financial statements for the LDS Church for the last five years (the last filing was for 2009 so they are little old).

    Charity-commision.gov.uk

    In a cursory review, a few things stand out...

    1. The Church received/earned a very substantial amount in 2006. The amount was 263,381,000 pounds (roughly $500,000,000 dollars), which was about 7 times the amount in the year previous and the year after. I wonder what this was from? I assume that a wealthy member may have left their estate to the church, but who knows...

    2. Outside of the 2006 aberration, it shows that Church income has been dropping over the last 5 years while expenses have been increasing. In fact the church actually lost money in 2008 & 2009. Maybe I am reading too much into those numbers and money is just being transfered somewhere else. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues when they post the 2010 numbers in a couple months.

    3. It appears that nepotism is still running strong in the church as Joseph B. Wirthlin's son is a trustee.

    Any faithful thoughts or rabid speculation on the above information?
    The bump in '06 was largely due to the conversion of intercompany debt to grant income.
    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
    -Turtle
    sigpic

    Comment

    • #3
      There is some membership data in the reports...

      If anything, church membership in the GB seems to be on a slight decline.
      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Surfah View Post
        The bump in '06 was largely due to the conversion of intercompany debt to grant income.
        You may be saying this in jest, but I wondered about something like that in regards to building the Preston Temple in England. It was built in 1998, so maybe the Church decided to not hold it as a debt to the saints in England and just canceled the debt in 2006 thus creating the income. Although, even in England where land is expensive I cannot see them spending that kind of money to build a temple.

        Maybe it was for all church property in England and not just the Preston Temple. That would make more sense.
        "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
          There is some membership data in the reports...

          If anything, church membership in the GB seems to be on a slight decline.
          that is a lot more static than i would have expected, but still those numbers are tiny as a % of population
          Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Surfah View Post
            The bump in '06 was largely due to the conversion of intercompany debt to grant income.
            I guess actually reading the financial statement helps:

            Incoming resources saw a significant increase from 46,997,000 in 2005 to 263,381,000 in 2006. This was primarily due to the direction by the parent compnay to transfer all inter-company debt to donation income and as a result the parent company donation was 231,787,000 for the year. The other incoming resources were donations from members (30,748,000)...
            "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
              I guess actually reading the financial statement helps:
              Like I said.
              "Nobody listens to Turtle."
              -Turtle
              sigpic

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
                2. Outside of the 2006 aberration, it shows that Church income has been dropping over the last 5 years while expenses have been increasing. In fact the church actually lost money in 2008 & 2009. Maybe I am reading too much into those numbers and money is just being transfered somewhere else. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues when they post the 2010 numbers in a couple months.
                After actually looking at the financial statements and not just the graphs it appears that a good chunk of the expenses are just depreciation of assets.

                Edit: Well out of the three initial issues at least I still have the nepotism thing going.
                Last edited by Sullyute; 08-02-2011, 10:31 AM.
                "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
                  After actually looking at the financial statements and not just the graphs it appears that a good chunk of the expenses are just depreciation of assets.
                  Aw man, I was looking forward to the rabid speculation.
                  "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                  -Turtle
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
                    After actually looking at the financial statements and not just the graphs it appears that a good chunk of the expenses are just depreciation of assets.

                    Edit: Well out of the three initial issues at least I still have the nepotism thing going.
                    To quote the immortal J. Golden Kimball, "People are called three ways in the Church: inspiration, desperation and relation" He went on to say he qualified on two of the three and left to you to decide which two.

                    I may be small, but I'm slow.

                    A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      About 200 Pounds/Member in Donations for the year. That's pretty weak sauce IMO with GDP/Capita is around 21,500 Pounds, <1% per capita income or implying about a 10% compliance with the law of Tithing.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SportUTE View Post
                        About 200 Pounds/Member in Donations for the year. That's pretty weak sauce IMO with GDP/Capita is around 21,500 Pounds, <1% per capita income or implying about a 10% compliance with the law of Tithing.
                        The less than 1% number makes sense given that there are kids that are members, old people that probably don't pay on pension/social welfare (is it income?), less activity in Europe compared to Utah/Arizona/Idaho, paying on net (really no one in Europe should be paying on gross given the high tax burden)....
                        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                          There is some membership data in the reports...

                          If anything, church membership in the GB seems to be on a slight decline.
                          It's a race to baptize enough Africans/West Indians to offset the apostatization of the Brits.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by camleish View Post
                            that is a lot more static than i would have expected, but still those numbers are tiny as a % of population
                            I am not so worried about the Brits. What about the French?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                              I am not so worried about the Brits. What about the French?
                              Certainly you would have expected they surrendered their financial records long ago.

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 template Next
                              Working...
                              X