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Look at Joseph's WORDS, not the pictures.

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  • Look at Joseph's WORDS, not the pictures.

    Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!

  • #2
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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    • #3
      I always enjoy lookings at the pictures more than I do reading.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Byu4eva View Post
        Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!
        I thought the scrolls didn't exist anymore. We can't look at the words.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Byu4eva View Post
          Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!
          Because we know he didn't actually translate any of those words from the scroll? Not sure what you're responding to so sorry if I missed the point.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Byu4eva View Post
            Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!
            I am with you. It isn't like you are looking at Playboy magazine.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Byu4eva View Post
              Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                I thought the scrolls didn't exist anymore. We can't look at the words.
                Oh, they do, but that's a topic for another thread.
                Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nikuman View Post
                  Oh, they do, but that's a topic for another thread.
                  Right, they do exist. Jacob, what do you mean they don't exist?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jay santos View Post
                    Right, they do exist. Jacob, what do you mean they don't exist?
                    The actual scrolls that Joseph used? I know there are funerary scrolls, but I thought the scrolls Joesph had were either burned or lost.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                      The actual scrolls that Joseph used? I know there are funerary scrolls, but I thought the scrolls Joesph had were either burned or lost.
                      I believe LDS scholars acknowledge the scrolls that were found are the same scrolls Joseph used. The only issue being that pieces are missing and it's not complete.

                      I don't think there are any reputable LDS scholars left that still maintain that Joseph was using ancient scrolls. The apologist argument has moved to a different angle.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Byu4eva View Post
                        Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!
                        Is this some kind of joke?

                        Why don't you read a little more about this. The papyri written "by the hand" of Abraham is not even from remotely the same era as Abraham. It's off by some 2000 years -- pretty much like saying something written today was written by Jesus Christ.

                        Here is where the FAIR people are taking the argument these days because there is no possible way to consider any part of the Book of Abraham any sort of translation whatsoever:

                        An example of what I am talking about is the recent discovery of the papyrus scrolls from which Joseph Smith was presumed to have translated the book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price. Modern scholars, looking at the scrolls, found nothing they considered to be similar to that book. I remarked at the time that such a finding didn't bother me in the least. God doesn't need a crib sheet in the form of a papyrus scroll to reveal Abraham's thoughts and words to Joseph Smith, with any degree of precision He considers necessary for His purposes. If the only function of the scrolls was to awaken the Prophet to the idea of receiving such inspiration, they would have fulfilled their purpose.

                        Henry Eyring

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                          The actual scrolls that Joseph used? I know there are funerary scrolls, but I thought the scrolls Joesph had were either burned or lost.
                          They were thought lost in the Chicago fire, but parts found in MMoA in NY in the 60's.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Byu4eva View Post
                            Why do all you critics of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham always bitch about the drawings and ignore the actual WORDS that Joseph translated from the scroll? Look at the WORDS not the pictures!
                            Check out this CUF thread: http://cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=8748

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                              Is this some kind of joke?

                              Why don't you read a little more about this. The papyri written "by the hand" of Abraham is not even from remotely the same era as Abraham. It's off by some 2000 years -- pretty much like saying something written today was written by Jesus Christ.

                              Here is where the FAIR people are taking the argument these days because there is no possible way to consider any part of the Book of Abraham any sort of translation whatsoever:
                              Henry Eyring was with FAIR?
                              “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                              ― W.H. Auden


                              "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                              -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                              "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                              --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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