Why don't we know the date of the MPH restoration?

[Moliere]

We had our annual APH restoration celebration (mormon PC for father/son campout...don't want to leave out those that are sinning by not replenishing the earth ). A discussion on the APH restoration merits it's own thread so I'll leave out that background. I also figured this would be a good topic for May given the annual celebrations/campouts.

I got to wondering why we don't know the specific date of the MPH restoration. Was it not accompanied by a divine revelation similar to the APH restoration (see D&C 13)? Did Joseph and Oliver just not understand the importance of what was happening? Did Joseph and Oliver make it up and project back through time the restoration? Lots of questions and little answers, unless of course you've prayed and received a testimony that it is true

I just find it odd that neither Joseph nor Oliver wrote about the event at the time that it happened. It's also odd that it wasn't accompanied by a written revelation similar to the APH restoration. I mean, Joseph was receiving revelations for questions on if John was still alive so why that and not the MPH restoration? Such a revelation would obviously clear up the muddy water a bit at least as to a date.

I did find this blog post that seemed to give a good summary of the problems that one encounters when trying to pin down a day or even a range of days when the MPH restoration happened. It's logical to place the restoration between May 15, 1829 (restoration of APH) and August 1830 (D&C 27 discusses MPH restoration, see verse 12). It appears to me that it's more likely the MPH was restored in the summer of 1830 (possible July/August?) but then again both the 1829 and 1830 theories seem to be based solely on second hand hearsay and contradictory reports by Joseph.

In any case, I have my thoughts but wanted to see if anyone else had looked into this.

[Pheidippides]

We had our annual APH restoration celebration (mormon PC for father/son campout...don't want to leave out those that are sinning by not replenishing the earth ). A discussion on the APH restoration merits it's own thread so I'll leave out that background. I also figured this would be a good topic for May given the annual celebrations/campouts.

I got to wondering why we don't know the specific date of the MPH restoration. Was it not accompanied by a divine revelation similar to the APH restoration (see D&C 13)? Did Joseph and Oliver just not understand the importance of what was happening? Did Joseph and Oliver make it up and project back through time the restoration? Lots of questions and little answers, unless of course you've prayed and received a testimony that it is true

I just find it odd that neither Joseph nor Oliver wrote about the event at the time that it happened. It's also odd that it wasn't accompanied by a written revelation similar to the APH restoration. I mean, Joseph was receiving revelations for questions on if John was still alive so why that and not the MPH restoration? Such a revelation would obviously clear up the muddy water a bit at least as to a date.

I did find this blog post that seemed to give a good summary of the problems that one encounters when trying to pin down a day or even a range of days when the MPH restoration happened. It's logical to place the restoration between May 15, 1829 (restoration of APH) and August 1830 (D&C 27 discusses MPH restoration, see verse 12). It appears to me that it's more likely the MPH was restored in the summer of 1830 (possible July/August?) but then again both the 1829 and 1830 theories seem to be based solely on second hand hearsay and contradictory reports by Joseph.

In any case, I have my thoughts but wanted to see if anyone else had looked into this.

Quinn talks about this in Origins of Power. I'll see if I can find the exact passage.

[jay santos]

I've mentioned this before. It's one of the historical items that bothers me.

[Moliere]

I've mentioned this before. It's one of the historical items that bothers me.

I'm not sure it really bothers me. I can understand better after reading RSR as to why Joseph wouldn't have really understood the priesthood and thus didn't put a very high priority on it until the late 1830s. It does bother me though that no one found it incredible enough to record in a journal. I mean, didn't PJJ give them a prophecy at that time or qt least some words of encouragement?

[Pheidippides]

I'm not sure it really bothers me. I can understand better after reading RSR as to why Joseph wouldn't have really understood the priesthood and thus didn't put a very high priority on it until the late 1830s. It does bother me though that no one found it incredible enough to record in a journal. I mean, didn't PJJ give them a prophecy at that time or qt least some words of encouragement?

One of the speculations of Quinn is that since the actual restoration of the MP probably did not happen until 1832 (and not 1830) the church would have been organized with only the AP and leadership has a problem presenting that. Not sure why that would be the case, but that's what he speculates.

There's more to the story involving adultery of Oliver Cowdrey and doctoring of revelations/records so that the chiding he received wasn't made public.

[jay santos]

I'm not sure it really bothers me. I can understand better after reading RSR as to why Joseph wouldn't have really understood the priesthood and thus didn't put a very high priority on it until the late 1830s. It does bother me though that no one found it incredible enough to record in a journal. I mean, didn't PJJ give them a prophecy at that time or qt least some words of encouragement?

When Peter, James, and John appear to you and put their hands on your head and confer the Melchizedek priesthood, it's a big deal, I don't care what your circumstances are. P,J, and J are lousy messengers if they couldn't get the point across.

I can see a SNL like skit about this.

"Joseph, come on man, why didn't you publish a revelation on this, record it in your journal, start preaching it in sermons, or at least drop it in casual conversations?"

"What the hell do you mean, you didn't think it was important??!! WE'RE PETER, JAMES, AND JOHN DAMMIT!"

[Flystripper]

When Peter, James, and John appear to you and put their hands on your head and confer the Melchizedek priesthood, it's a big deal, I don't care what your circumstances are. P,J, and J are lousy messengers if they couldn't get the point across.

I can see a SNL like skit about this.

"Joseph, come on man, why didn't you publish a revelation on this, record it in your journal, start preaching it in sermons, or at least drop it in casual conversations?"

"What the hell do you mean, you didn't think it was important??!! WE'RE PETER, JAMES, AND JOHN DAMMIT!"

pretty awesome skit for the few of us who would understand it!

[jay santos]

pretty awesome skit for the few of us who would understand it!

This is how I entertain myself.

[DapperDan]

When Peter, James, and John appear to you and put their hands on your head and confer the Melchizedek priesthood, it's a big deal, I don't care what your circumstances are. P,J, and J are lousy messengers if they couldn't get the point across.

I can see a SNL like skit about this.

"Joseph, come on man, why didn't you publish a revelation on this, record it in your journal, start preaching it in sermons, or at least drop it in casual conversations?"

"What the hell do you mean, you didn't think it was important??!! WE'RE PETER, JAMES, AND JOHN DAMMIT!"

"We're kind of a big deal!"

[Moliere]

When Peter, James, and John appear to you and put their hands on your head and confer the Melchizedek priesthood, it's a big deal, I don't care what your circumstances are. P,J, and J are lousy messengers if they couldn't get the point across.

I can see a SNL like skit about this.

"Joseph, come on man, why didn't you publish a revelation on this, record it in your journal, start preaching it in sermons, or at least drop it in casual conversations?"

"What the hell do you mean, you didn't think it was important??!! WE'RE PETER, JAMES, AND JOHN DAMMIT!"

It can go along with the same narrative for why Joseph never openly discussed the first vision until years after it happened. Fear of retribution, fear of people not believing him, fear after being scorned by the preacher he told it to. That is obviously an apologist point of view but it's one that I think works. I also doubt he fully understand the magnitude of the event, which is kind o odd since he was visited by PJJ.

It is clear though that Joseph did not understand the PH at first. He even went back and modified some revelations to insert the word "priesthood" to better define what was happening in those revelations.

Or he just made it all up and redrew history to fit his ever changing narrative (I don't believe this but it is possible given the enormous ambiguity, conflicting reports, and lack of early discussion of the PH restoration)

[jay santos]

It can go along with the same narrative for why Joseph never openly discussed the first vision until years after it happened. Fear of retribution, fear of people not believing him, fear after being scorned by the preacher he told it to. That is obviously an apologist point of view but it's one that I think works. I also doubt he fully understand the magnitude of the event, which is kind o odd since he was visited by PJJ.

It is clear though that Joseph did not understand the PH at first. He even went back and modified some revelations to insert the word "priesthood" to better define what was happening in those revelations.

Or he just made it all up and redrew history to fit his ever changing narrative (I don't believe this but it is possible given the enormous ambiguity, conflicting reports, and lack of early discussion of the PH restoration)

There's a general pattern with the angelic visits. They became more detailed, important, etc as time went on. Although this is not consistent. For example, the angelic witness to the three witnesses didn't follow this pattern. Some of the issues the apologists and critics argue over don't mean much to me. I have to admit this issue is one of the most difficult for me. I understand the apologist take on it. I just find it illogical and inconsistent.