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...http://stevebloor.wordpress.com/2011...ter-as-bishop/
Probably an underlying porn problem (big-time TIC)
For me it is more important to believe in an uncomfortable truth than a comforting fantasy.
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"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf -
This is the kind of thing that should be done in college. The purpose of college is to embrace uncomfortable truth instead of fantasy.Originally posted by Moliere View Post
In a way, I actually respect those of you who are trapped by marriage etc. because you didn't get out at the appropriate time, and soldier on for the sake of propriety, stable relationships and an orderly life.When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
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How do you make it into your 30s in the Church and still not know that Joseph gave multiple varying accounts of the First Vision or not know that he was a polygamist?Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
I don't get these people who all of a sudden decide to learn the basics of Church history after decades of obviously not reading anything serious about its history. And once again this shows that the Church needs to inoculate members against this stuff to some degree.
Did this guy just get the internet last month or something?Comment
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I agree. Most people don't think or read much, I think is the explanation. Also, they fear the truth.Originally posted by CardiacCoug View PostWhen a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
--Jonathan SwiftComment
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Because he only read the church's material, like he was supposed to. Are any of those things ever discussed in any church materials that are currently being used?Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. UchtdorfComment
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I don't get this post. The bishop wasn't trapped in a marriage. In fact, he talked about the issues with his wife and found out his marriage was bigger than religion. His "unconversion" lasted over a space of 1 month so I'm not seeing the relevance. Your comment might be appropriate in another thread but it is way off topic here.Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. UchtdorfComment
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I've taught a number of the things to which he most pointedly objects in sunday school. One of my favorite lessons was the one where I passed out the different versions of the first vision out to the class so we could compare them. There's room for these topics in an uplifting, faith-building discussion-- but we don't seem sure where or how.Originally posted by Moliere View Postτὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσινComment
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I got to my 30's without knowing a lot of stuff.Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
I had heard vaguely on issues like multiple First Vision Accounts, Book of Abraham troubles, peepstone used in translation process, source material for BOM and JS revelations, JS treasure hunting, and the ugly side of polygamy (I distinguish regular polygamy which is defensible with ugly side which includes stuff like: coercion of young women, polyandry, marrying already married women, hiding stuff behind Emma's back, Fannie Alger story, etc.). But I never investigated any of this. I assumed they were anti-Mormon propaganda with no truth. It wasn't until my 30's that I learned the factual details behind these issues.Comment
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And please point out the church-approved materials you used that contained the different versions of the first vision....Originally posted by All-American View Post
The point is that if we only study from church curriculum and publishings (which is heavily emphasized as the only and best source material) then you'll never find these things out."Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. UchtdorfComment
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Right, I wasn't disputing your point (although I think all four versions can be found "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith" as compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, or History of the Church).Originally posted by Moliere View PostLast edited by All-American; 04-23-2011, 07:56 AM.τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσινComment
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Also, please describe the effect the lesson had on every participant, with special emphasis on those that had never heard of varying accounts or that had heard the rumor but been told that it was untrue.Originally posted by Moliere View PostFitter. Happier. More Productive.
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I didn't pass out a response form or organize an exit poll, but from what I could tell, the lesson was very well received.Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Postτὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσινComment
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Would you expect people to come up to you and tell you that their testimonies were a little shaken?Originally posted by All-American View PostFitter. Happier. More Productive.
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What was your explanation that the original version makes no reference to God, none but the last makes reference to both the Son and the Father, or that none of this was openly taught or referenced to in the church for years later? And did all in your audience accept your explanation?Originally posted by All-American View Post
Where I'm going is this: apologists that think there's a place to open all the worm cans because they think they have neat, tidy answers to them are the group of people primarily responsible for illustrating to me the issues which eventually have caused me a lot of inner turmoil to the point of having serious issues with the reality of the restoration.
Apologists seem to work like this.
1. Here's the fact that makes the church look bad.
2. Here's my incredibly twisted, illogical answer to it.
3. You must accept it because I have multiple degrees and have published papers. I'm smarter than you, I believe it, so you must believe it too.Comment
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