I didn't realize that JFS & BR McConkie hijacked the Church

[TexTechCoug]

Many of you are likely Church history buffs. Smith and McConkie both circumvented the prophet in order to publish their opinions. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine was so rife w/ errors that McKay didn't want to correct it for fear of destroying McConkie's reputation. McConkie was so arrogant and prideful that he disobeyed the prophet and republished it.

Sad that a few of the hardest of hardliners were able to "create" doctrine and practices, especially when they weren't entitled to do so.

[scottie]

Do we have a Summon Grapevine image?

[grapevine]

Why would he be called as an apostle if he disobeyed the counsel of the First Presidency. We went through the rounds of this on Cougarboard. Rise of Modern Mormonism is not Scripture. I think on Guard I posted some blogs defending BRM suchas Iron Rod and others.

I don't think the site is still up out of Joseph Fielding McConkies book on the Mormon Doctrine Saga. Marlin Jensen church historian defended modoc in a talk he gave. I posted that on the guard. I just purchased Dennis b Hornes Bruce R McConkie his life and teachins off of Amazon. Has not came to me yet though. Tells the truth about modoc as well.

I read dos many times. I do not see too many errors there. They were full of inspired counsel that some people do not want to hear. I could not attend the temple in good standing and come home and criticize those the Lord calls to preside over many. McConkie had an understanding of the gospel and lived and breathed it.

Who created doctrine? As BRM said in seven deadly heresays doctrine cannot be created. As for progression between kingdoms SWK agreeed with BRM if you read Miracle of Forgiveness. Church does oppose evolution. I think it is cop out not to follow counsel if you criticize brethern.

We raise our arm to the square to sustain all of the General Authorities and local authorities and do in the temple recommend. But sustaining them we agree to follow there counsel. BRM was obedient to his superiors. Rise of Modern Mormonism did not tell the whole truth. I did buy it and read it.

Can't wait tell Second bio of BRM comes my way.

[CardiacCoug]

Many of you are likely Church history buffs. Smith and McConkie both circumvented the prophet in order to publish their opinions. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine was so rife w/ errors that McKay didn't want to correct it for fear of destroying McConkie's reputation. McConkie was so arrogant and prideful that he disobeyed the prophet and republished it.

Sad that a few of the hardest of hardliners were able to "create" doctrine and practices, especially when they weren't entitled to do so.

Did you read David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism?

If I recall from that book, it was a little more complicated than that. David O. McKay was a great spiritual leader and great man. But when it came to administration and holding to consistent policies he had problems, especially when it came to official policies regarding wildcards like ETB and BRM and with the church building program.

McKay said at one point that MoDoc should not be republished, but later either forgot or softened his stance on the topic.

[Viking]

BRM is a moron.

[TexTechCoug]

Did you read David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism?

If I recall from that book, it was a little more complicated than that. David O. McKay was a great spiritual leader and great man. But when it came to administration and holding to consistent policies he had problems, especially when it came to official policies regarding wildcards like ETB and BRM and with the church building program.

McKay said at one point that MoDoc should not be republished, but later either forgot or softened his stance on the topic.

That is what I am reading and McKay did not change his stance, BRM willfully misunderstood the prophet and went ahead with the republication, and suddenly he became the author of a lt of non-doctrinal "doctrine."

[grapevine]

That is what I am reading and McKay did not change his stance, BRM willfully misunderstood the prophet and went ahead with the republication, and suddenly he became the author of a lt of non-doctrinal "doctrine."

Have you read Joseph Fielding McConkie reflections of a son or Dennis B Horne Bruce R McConkie his life and teachings. I like those summaries better than Rise of Modern Mormonism. At Times and Seasons I think one of the authors mentioned discrepancies and said diffrent perspective.

MoDoc is frequently mentioned in Conference. Another one is Man his origin and destiny. Bob quoted it a few conferences ago something from it. ETB railed on a professer who criticized the book and author in a devotional in the 1970's saying the integrity of a prophet is in question.

I thumbed through Smiths antievolution book as a kid one time I think the fruits have manifest them through modoc as it is a quoted book that fills a need. I maybe need to put some blogs defending it on here if I get around to HTML it.

[TexTechCoug]

I could not attend the temple in good standing and come home and criticize those the Lord calls to preside over many. McConkie had an understanding of the gospel and lived and breathed it.


We raise our arm to the square to sustain all of the General Authorities and local authorities and do in the temple recommend. But sustaining them we agree to follow there counsel. .

So what do you do when those authorities disagree or some of them practice outright apostasy?

[TexTechCoug]

Have you read Joseph Fielding McConkie reflections of a son or Dennis B Horne Bruce R McConkie his life and teachings. I like those summaries better than Rise of Modern Mormonism. At Times and Seasons I think one of the authors mentioned discrepancies and said diffrent perspective.

MoDoc is frequently mentioned in Conference. Another one is Man his origin and destiny. Bob quoted it a few conferences ago something from it. ETB railed on a professer who criticized the book and author in a devotional in the 1970's saying the integrity of a prophet is in question.

I thumbed through Smiths antievolution book as a kid one time I think the fruits have manifest them through modoc as it is a quoted book that fills a need. I maybe need to put some blogs defending it on here if I get around to HTML it.

Fair enough, the Rise of Modern Mormonism version is pretty scathing, and certainly McKay didn't agree with Smith's origin or BRM. He privately admitted to believing in evolution. I think many leaders have sought to canonize their opinions.

[CardiacCoug]

Fair enough, the Rise of Modern Mormonism version is pretty scathing, and certainly McKay didn't agree with Smith's origin or BRM. He privately admitted to believing in evolution. I think many leaders have sought to canonize their opinions.

Bottom line is that David O. McKay was just an incredibly good and kind man. He didn't want to hurt the Church or hurt BRM or JFS (or ETB). He agreed with them about a lot of things, and even agreed with ETB's politics to a certain degree. But he had to walk a fine line by not destroying their credibility while occasionally trying to reign all of them in a little bit.

But McKay at least made it pretty clear that Man, His Origin and Destiny was one man's opinion and not approved by the Church in any way. Good thing, because that book is completely idiotic.

[Viking]

My prediction is that all hardliners like grapevine will go through a serious falling away from the church at some point. They set themselves up to fail far too easily. When you take the view that something is either all right or all wrong, you leave no margin for error when a shade of grey appears.

[Maximus]

What does the origin book say that's so wrong?

[grapevine]

So what do you do when those authorities disagree or some of them practice outright apostasy?

Revelation can only come in properly appointed channels. I cannot receive revelation that a Seventy or Apostle is doing something wrong. That has to be handled from people who preside over them. Now if I know a GA is commiting a transgression that would effect his worthiness for a tr or to serve or membership in the church for that matter I would let his superiors know and they would handle it.

If everyone got revelation for the prophet how confusing that would be. People have diffrence of opinions on things yet to be revealed. Smith and McConkie were not apostate though they did what they could to bring to pass much righteousness. If fp commits transgression Pb and Twelve can convene court. We cannot get revelation out of stewardship though.

[Viking]

Do we have a Summon Grapevine image?

Summon BRM:

[redacted: too harsh, even for me]

[TexTechCoug]

My prediction is that all hardliners like grapevine will go through a serious falling away from the church at some point. They set themselves up to fail far too easily. When you take the view that something is either all right or all wrong, you leave no margin for error when a shade of grey appears.

I gave up being a hardliner as a missionary. My priesthood leaders were practicing so much apostasy, mind you not breaking rules, but teaching and enforcing principles counter to real church doctrine that I had to learn my connection to God did not necessarily include priesthood leadership.