What is the source of unusual LDS sexual morality?

[SeattleUte]

This is a serious issue someone could do a dissertation or write a fascinating book about. It addresses THE defining feature of today's LDS church, I submit (and arguably the source of a lot of its problems).

First, my premise: LDS sexual morality is extraordinary. Yes, all Christianity condems extra-marital sex, most of it condemns same gender sex, pornogrophy etc. But there is a special assiduousness, intensity and preoccupation about the way LDS LIVE sexual morality. Agreed? The world is agape at poor Brandon Davies' fate. An LDS virgin, even a male, in his twenties is not unusual. It's quite unusual outside LDS culture, at least in the West.

The difference between the LDS Church and the Taliban with respect to a sex code is that the LDS Church doesn't kill sinners. Regarding the practice of sexual morality, is there a difference between LDS and Amish?

I think the foregoing is pretty balanced. I'll also note though that the LDS fixation on porn as tantamount to the Gadianton robbers in terms of danger to civilization seems to me extreme.

Where does this come from? I don't recall much of it in the D&C and Book of Mormon. I don't recall that this extreme sexual morality pervaded the early church. So, has this feature of LDS faith arisen after the early church? Calvinist roots (yes, LDS have those)? The main source of it in New Testamente is Paul but he was a Greek speaking and writing Christian that does not seem central to LDS theology.

Could it also be a reaction to Joseph Smith's rampant sexual indiscretions? A sort of extreme correction?

[Jacob]

Agreed?

No.

[RobinFinderson]

It is blowback from the sixties.

[DapperDan]

Chastity, even among married couples, was a fairly common teaching in early Christianity. I think most of the "sex is bad" feelings have their root in that.

[SeattleUte]

Chastity, even among married couples, was a fairly common teaching in early Christianity. I think most of the "sex is bad" feelings have their root in that.

You man have a point. When I read classical literature I'm also sometimes suprised at how prudish the Romans were outside of the royalty. They were very family oriented.

[creekster]

You man have a point. When I read classical literature I'm also sometimes suprised at how prudish the Romans were outside of the royalty. They were very family oriented.

Are you trolling us? You, of all people, who are constatnly harpibng on how ,mromonism is a relic of the 19th century si asking where the prudish sexualmorality comes from? removing for a momemtn even the possibility of divind guidance, your own analysis suggests pretty clearly where it comes from, doesn't it? Just watch a few english costume dramas and you ewill figure it out. The suspected loss of virtue of some young woman almost always plays a big part in those plots.

[CardiacCoug]

I would say that it's the LDS belief in "worthiness" as it pertains to temple attendance and temple marriage and the LDS belief in the necessity of confession to Priesthood authority that produced the emphasis on sexual abstinence outside of marriage.

And I would also say that the Book of Mormon passages that have been interpreted as calling adultery the "sin next to murder" have something to do with it.

Some have argued that after polygamy went away, there was a need for something to substitute for polygamy as a marker of the elite, super-righteous class of Mormons. That marker of elite LDS status became temple worthiness/attendance.

No sex outside of marriage was required for Temple worthiness from the beginning. The first questions was about murder and the third question was about sex (see below, from 1857). The specifics of the Word of Wisdom weren't added until the 1930s. Prior to that there was just a question about "intoxication."

Not really on-topic, but here were the Temple Recommend questions from 1857:

QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED THE LATTER DAY SAINTS
Have you committed murder by shedding innocent blood, or consenting thereto?

Have you betrayed your brethren or sisters in anything?

Have you committed adultery, by having any connection with a woman that was not your wife, or a man that was not your husband?

Have you taken and made use of property not your own, without the consent of the owner?

Have you cut hay where you had no right to, or turned your animals into another person’s grain or field, without his knowledge and consent?

Have you lied about or maliciously misrepresented any person or thing?

Have you borrowed anything that you have not returned, or paid for?

Have you borne false witness against your neighbor?

Have you taken the name of Deity in vain?

Have you coveted anything not your own?

Have you been intoxicated with strong drink?

Have you found lost property and not returned it to the owner, or used all diligence to do so?

Have you branded an animal that you did not know to be your own?

Have you taken another’s horse or mule from the range and rode it, without the owner's consent?

Have you fulfilled your promises in paying your debts, or run into debt without prospect of paying?

Have you taken water to irrigate with, when it belonged to another person at the time you used it?

Do you pay your tithing promptly?

Do you teach her family the gospel of salvation?

Do you speak against your brethren, or against any principle taught in the Bible, Book of Mormon, book of Doctrine and Covenants, revelations given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and the Presidency of the Church as now organized?

Do you pray in your family night and morning and attend to secret prayer?

Do you wash your body and have your family do so, as often as health and cleanliness require and circumstances will permit?

Do you labor six days and rest, or go to the house of worship, on the seventh?

Do you preside over your household as a servant of God, and is your family subject to you?

Have you labored diligently and earned faithfully the wages paid you by your employers?

Do you oppress the hireling in his wages?

Have you taken up and converted any stray animal to your own use, or in any manner appropriated one to your benefit, without accounting therefore to the proper authorities?

In answer to the above questions, let all men and women confess to the persons they have injured and make restitution, or satisfaction. And when catechizing the people, the Bishops, Teachers, Missionaries and other officers in the Church are not at liberty to pry into sins that are between a person and his or her God; but let each person confess to the proper authority, that the adversary may not have an opportunity to take advantage of human weaknesses, and thereby destroy souls.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The #1 problem, IMO, that our country faces is the massive number of children that are growing up in single parent homes. These children come about mostly as a result of people having sex outside of marriage. I think all of our problems stem originally from this single larger problem. There aren't enough producers and there are too many living on the edge of society that don't produce anything. There's a strong correlation between those who don't produce anything that are either single parents forced to raise a child on their own or were children raised by single parents or both. A young, uneducated woman who has a woman is basically sentenced to a lifetime of poverty.

From this perspective, the high premium that the church places on no sex outside of marriage has some basis in promoting a better big picture. Of course there are some massive rough edges to the church's policy on this matter and how they enforce the policy/commandment, but the policy itself isn't without its benefits.

I'm not being puritanical in pointing out the benefits -- Daniel Patrick Moynihan lamented the number of children growing up in single parent homes.

FTR, as I've mentioned before in this forum, my dad came about as a result of sex performed outside of marriage.

[SeattleUte]

Are you trolling us?

I told you it was a serious post at the outset.

[wuapinmon]

The #1 problem, IMO, that our country faces is the massive number of children that are growing up in single parent homes. These children come about mostly as a result of people having sex outside of marriage.

I'm reading a ton of stuff right now in preparation for my Afro-Hispanic Lit & Culture course next Fall. One of the essays I just read by Pablo "Yoruba" Guzmán, "Before people called me 'spic' they called me 'nigger'," he comments that his gang was able to control his neighborhood in NYC until the early mid-60's when drugs and "anti-poverty" programs came in. He goes on to rant about how anti-poverty programs (he wrote this in October 1969) had destroyed his neighborhood because if you got pregnant you got set up. It's only gotten worse now, regardless of race.

I almost wish the first lesson I taught in my freshman classes could involve a big chart that I show while I say, "Let me show you this chart about people who use condoms for birth control, they're called PARENTS!"

[SeattleUte]

The #1 problem, IMO, that our country faces is the massive number of children that are growing up in single parent homes. These children come about mostly as a result of people having sex outside of marriage. I think all of our problems stem originally from this single larger problem. There aren't enough producers and there are too many living on the edge of society that don't produce anything. There's a strong correlation between those who don't produce anything that are either single parents forced to raise a child on their own or were children raised by single parents or both. A young, uneducated woman who has a woman is basically sentenced to a lifetime of poverty.

From this perspective, the high premium that the church places on no sex outside of marriage has some basis in promoting a better big picture. Of course there are some massive rough edges to the church's policy on this matter and how they enforce the policy/commandment, but the policy itself isn't without its benefits.

I'm not being puritanical in pointing out the benefits -- Daniel Patrick Moynihan lamented the number of children growing up in single parent homes.

FTR, as I've mentioned before in this forum, my dad came about as a result of sex performed outside of marriage.

GUESS WHAT. Marriages between veritable kids contribute to this problem, not detract from it. Do LDS have a lower divorce rate? I bet they have a higher rate of Shogun marriages.

[CardiacCoug]

GUESS WHAT. Marriages between veritable kids contribute to this problem, not detract from it. Do LDS have a lower divorce rate? I bet they have a higher rate of Shogun marriages.

Yes, active and temple-married LDS have a MUCH lower divorce rate than the national average. This is still true for the 21-22 year old "kids" that get married.

Sorry, just trying to help and being honest.

[SeattleUte]

The #1 problem, IMO, that our country faces is the massive number of children that are growing up in single parent homes. These children come about mostly as a result of people having sex outside of marriage. I think all of our problems stem originally from this single larger problem. There aren't enough producers and there are too many living on the edge of society that don't produce anything. There's a strong correlation between those who don't produce anything that are either single parents forced to raise a child on their own or were children raised by single parents or both. A young, uneducated woman who has a woman is basically sentenced to a lifetime of poverty.

From this perspective, the high premium that the church places on no sex outside of marriage has some basis in promoting a better big picture. Of course there are some massive rough edges to the church's policy on this matter and how they enforce the policy/commandment, but the policy itself isn't without its benefits.

I'm not being puritanical in pointing out the benefits -- Daniel Patrick Moynihan lamented the number of children growing up in single parent homes.

FTR, as I've mentioned before in this forum, my dad came about as a result of sex performed outside of marriage.

In other words, education and planned parenthood (very much hopefully absent abortion), delaying marriage, not cruel medieveal sexual morality, is the salvation from the problem you identify.

Now, back to the question at hand, what's the source of the ultra strict and intolerant LDS sexual morality?

[wuapinmon]

Do LDS have a lower divorce rate? I bet they have a higher rate of Shogun marriages.

I'd imagine that Japan has a very low out-of-wedlock birthrate. Because, as we all know, to break the rules invites chaos into your life.

[BigFatMeanie]

GUESS WHAT. Marriages between veritable kids contribute to this problem, not detract from it. Do LDS have a lower divorce rate? I bet they have a higher rate of Shogun marriages.

What's fascinating is how the age of "veritable kid"ness seems to increase over time. Why is that?