Lower birth rates are threatening families...

[KillerDog]

Jimmy! Oh, Jimmy!

Lex de Azevedo at his best. He's in my ward.

[SeattleUte]

Lex de Azevedo at his best. He's in my ward.

He's hugely underappreciated by LDS. Tell him I said so, please.

[UtahDan]

Does anyone have the heart to dog pile on Sis. Beck at this point? Not me.

[Uncle Ted]

In developed countries, birth rates decline when there is a great amount of economic insecurity. When the bread winners of a family lack economic security, they will delay having children or limit the size of their family.

Russia is an example of this. I was fascinated when I attended a presentation about Russia by a retired couple who had just returned from serving a mission. After seeing a bunch of pictures, I asked where all the Russian teenagers were as it seemed there were a lot of older people and then fewer children and infants but almost no teenagers. The couple explained that when the Iron Curtain fell there was a high degree of economic uncertainty and people quit having children until the uncertainty subsided.

Anecdotally, I see this with my own teenagers. None are in a hurry to get married and don't want a large family. They plan on graduating from college and get a feel for what their career prospects are before starting a family.

In church, we here from the pulpit all too often that we are chooing material and worldy things over spiritual and eternal things. That may be the case for some, but for many families, they just want to make sure they can provide for the children they choose to have. And there's a lot of economic uncertainty across many industries right now. I wonder if LDS church leaders are insulated from this since they don't have to worry about being unemployed the next time their institution mandates a "re-organization". People shouldn't be made to feel guilty because they have a smaller family by LDS standards when that is all they feel they can provide for.

So the threat is being unemployed and having a large family that cannot be provided for rather than lusting after material things. I totally understand why a couple may delay marriage or delay family until they have the means to provide for them. It wasn't that long ago where that was expected in some societies where there were 30-year old men marrying for the first time.

There is economic data backing up what you are saying. Marriage/birth rates are lower during recessions.

Recession Kills The Mood: Americans Put Off Marriage, Children (And Divorce) Because Of Economy

Some Americans are putting off marriage and children because of the economy, according to a national survey released Wednesday.

Eleven percent of Americans surveyed said they planned to postpone marriage, and the same number said they are waiting to have children, according to the survey by legal website FindLaw.com.

[...]

Thirty-seven percent of people between 18 and 34 said they were postponing marriage, divorce, or children.

[Moliere]

There is economic data backing up what you are saying. Marriage/birth rates are lower during recessions.

Hurricanes increase birth rates.

"We were trying for a baby several months before," said Les Costales, a first-time father. "Of course Hurricane Ike gave us the extra time."

Extra quality time that made him and his wife, Lindsay, brand new parents today. The Humble couple went through induced labor and gave birth at two this morning to a healthy baby boy.

"We knew we wanted kids," said Lindsay. "When Hurricane Ike hit, everyone was stuck at home so the timing just worked out well."

"Sex is something that can occur," Dr. David Zepeda of St. Luke's Hospital said regarding the long black out immediately after Ike. "And the inability to go to the store and buy contraceptive devices."

[SuperGabers]

http://lds.org/ensign/2011/03/teachi...amily?lang=eng

I also found the threat of "unequal relationships between men and women" to be an interesting threat given the insistence on a patriarchal structure of the Mormon home.

I know EJ! WTF!

I'd like to know where they got their information from to make such a claim AND I would love to see what kind of response they would supply if they looked at the same stats within the LDS church.

[Uncle Ted]

http://lds.org/ensign/2011/03/teachi...amily?lang=eng

I also found the threat of "unequal relationships between men and women" to be an interesting threat given the insistence on a patriarchal structure of the Mormon home.

I know EJ! WTF!

I'd like to know where they got their information from to make such a claim AND I would love to see what kind of response they would supply if they looked at the same stats within the LDS church.

I guess if polygamy comes back then they will need to also need polyandry to keep the relationships equal between men and women.

[pellegrino]

When did we become The Church of the Family of Latter Day Saints?

[Solon]

When did we become The Church of the Family of Latter Day Saints?

Historically, industrialized nations have lower birth-rates than unindustrialized ones. The church still can't move past its agrarian, western US roots.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I don't think the "family is under attack" any more than it was in the 70s, 80s or even 90s. It seems to me that the culture has moved onto some kind of extreme fawning over children kick -- which is different than it was when the whole Murphy Brown tempest in a teapot thing was going on. In 1992, Murphy Brown was going to have a kid on her own, dammit, and Dan Quayle couldn't do anything about it (little was said or done on the show that talked about the welfare of the child). Now, two gay domestic partners adopt a little girl, one of the men stays home with her, and one of the points of the show is the ridiculous micromanagement the men engage in while raising the child -- essentially the needs of the child comes before everything else.

In a way, the family values people won. Adults with children who act recklessly are more stigmatized IMO then they were during some of the more "me first" times. But things may have evolved in a way the family values people did not see -- the gay couple fawning over their adopted child, liberal urban parents caring more about instilling green and multicultural values in their kids than introducing them to religion.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

They’re placing more and more value on education and less and less importance on forming an eternal family.

I found this quote disappointing. I don't like the presentation of an ultimatum -- "if you're getting educated at the expense of having kids right now, then you're standing in opposition to God." That's basically what she's asserting.

My wife was visiting a woman in our ward, she's in her mid 50s. She had her first kid when she was about 19 or 20 and have five kids total -- all before the age of 30. Her husband is a doctor and they're wonderful people.

But things don't have to be that way, though it's perfectly fine if someone does choose to churn out the kids at a relatively young age. My grandmother had my dad (her oldest) when she was still 19 and ended up having four kids. My other grandmother had my mother (also her oldest) when she was 27 and she ended up having five kids. My maternal grandmother is my only grandparent with a college degree.

Of course, there are questions regarding fertility if people wait too long to have their first child, but how often are people waiting that long in the LDS church. I can't recall if I've ever known any LDS couple that married in their early to mid 20s and have voluntarily waited into their 30s to have kids (I'm sure they exist, it's just rare). The number of LDS girls or guys that wait into their 30s to get married out of concern for their education and career are few and far between -- if they find the right person, they typically get married.

[Paperback Writer]

Of course, there are questions regarding fertility if people wait too long to have their first child, but how often are people waiting that long in the LDS church. I can't recall if I've ever known any LDS couple that married in their early to mid 20s and have voluntarily waited into their 30s to have kids (I'm sure they exist, it's just rare). The number of LDS girls or guys that wait into their 30s to get married out of concern for their education and career are few and far between -- if they find the right person, they typically get married.

I think the trend is going in the opposite direction. I'm one of those who married at 25 (wife was 27) and we waited four years until we both finished our degrees and started our careers. And have 4 children. In our ward, we see other couples doing something similar. I don't think LDS are exempting themselves from the trend of marrying at a later age and starting a family at a later time. It probably isn't as pronounced in the (dare I say) "gentile" culture but I think it's still there. Your milage may vary. I don't live in the inter-mountain west but almost all of these not-so-young families are moving into my area from there.

Edit: I would add that my Utah born-and-raised parents did the same thing. Waited until they graduated to marry. But they did have kids right away. And that is one of the reasons why I (we) waited to start a family (because my parents admitted they would do it differently if they could). Not that they would have less kids (they had 6) but perhaps wait a little for their relationship to strengthen and not have 18 years between the youngest and oldest child.

[byu71]

Sometimes I differ with what President Hinckley said. I think we come across as a fundamentalist church.

There are those who actually take these articles seriously, most don't. Most didn't in the 70's when it was preached regularly in conference.

[Solon]

The use of Abraham-Sarah to demonstrate the importance of family is pretty laughable:

The stories of Abraham and Sarah and of Isaac and Rebekah are found in Genesis. Abraham and Sarah had only one son, Isaac. If Abraham was to be the “father of many nations,” how important was Isaac’s wife, Rebekah? She was so important that he sent his servant hundreds of miles to find the right young woman—one who would keep her covenants, one who understood what it meant to form an eternal family.

What about Abraham and Hagar and Ishmael? How does that dynamic fit into the "Eternal Family" paradigm?

[wuapinmon]

Hurricanes increase birth rates.

YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT THEY DO!

Thanks, Katrina: