Preach My Gospel

[Surfah]

After going out with the missionaries last night I have decided that I don't like this program. I have gone out with the missionaries several times since Preach My Gospel was introduced and I just don't think missionaries teach enough or know how to teach. I think the old correlated 6 discussion format was far better at introducing the gospel to people. I understand the concept and open ended approach, but good teachers did the same even with the standard 6. Last night the missionaries goal was to discuss the role of the Holy Ghost and Joseph Smith as a prophet. Neither were clearly defined or illustrated. In fact the whole teaching of Joseph Smith was showing the investigator The Restoration DVD. I was actually growing frustrated that the Elders didn't follow up or ask about this investigator's understanding. I found myself participating way more than I cared to and the investigator's boyfriend (life long member, HP, RM, and former member of Bishopric) helped to steer and focus the discussion.

I talked with my dad, currently a WML, about this and he agreed. He said going out with the missionaries has helped him prepare for his Gospel Essentials class because he can fill in all of the blanks. He too feels like the missionaries today don't teach everything they should and do the investigators a disservice by glossing over some gospel principles.

[DrumNFeather]

After going out with the missionaries last night I have decided that I don't like this program. I have gone out with the missionaries several times since Preach My Gospel was introduced and I just don't think missionaries teach enough or know how to teach. I think the old correlated 6 discussion format was far better at introducing the gospel to people. I understand the concept and open ended approach, but good teachers did the same even with the standard 6. Last night the missionaries goal was to discuss the role of the Holy Ghost and Joseph Smith as a prophet. Neither were clearly defined or illustrated. In fact the whole teaching of Joseph Smith was showing the investigator The Restoration DVD. I was actually growing frustrated that the Elders didn't follow up or ask about this investigator's understanding. I found myself participating way more than I cared to and the investigator's boyfriend (life long member, HP, RM, and former member of Bishopric) helped to steer and focus the discussion.

I talked with my dad, currently a WML, about this and he agreed. He said going out with the missionaries has helped him prepare for his Gospel Essentials class because he can fill in all of the blanks. He too feels like the missionaries today don't teach everything they should and do the investigators a disservice by glossing over some gospel principles.

It seems like the discussions got to the point where the missionaries were being asked to invite a potential investigator to baptism after every principle taught. Nowadays, it seems as though those invitations are still there, but the pace is much slower and as you point out, open ended so that the missionaries can really take their time teaching. Problem is that they're losing that ability to teach. I hated discussion drills as much as the next guy, but at least you knew your stuff (or at least you knew the outlined principles you were to be teaching).

[wuapinmon]

I am not a fan, and half the time the mission presidents don't make them follow the rules in the manual anyway.

[Surfah]

I am not a fan, and half the time the mission presidents don't make them follow the rules in the manual anyway.

Some how I ended up on the email list for the MP here. I have never even met him before. Anyway, he spams my account with missionary moments, letters to him from missionaries, activities and events, etc. I was getting like 2-3 emails from him daily. I didn't have the heart to ask him to remove my name so I put his email address in my Spam filter.

[Moliere]

After going out with the missionaries last night I have decided that I don't like this program. I have gone out with the missionaries several times since Preach My Gospel was introduced and I just don't think missionaries teach enough or know how to teach. I think the old correlated 6 discussion format was far better at introducing the gospel to people. I understand the concept and open ended approach, but good teachers did the same even with the standard 6. Last night the missionaries goal was to discuss the role of the Holy Ghost and Joseph Smith as a prophet. Neither were clearly defined or illustrated. In fact the whole teaching of Joseph Smith was showing the investigator The Restoration DVD. I was actually growing frustrated that the Elders didn't follow up or ask about this investigator's understanding. I found myself participating way more than I cared to and the investigator's boyfriend (life long member, HP, RM, and former member of Bishopric) helped to steer and focus the discussion.

I talked with my dad, currently a WML, about this and he agreed. He said going out with the missionaries has helped him prepare for his Gospel Essentials class because he can fill in all of the blanks. He too feels like the missionaries today don't teach everything they should and do the investigators a disservice by glossing over some gospel principles.

I'm mixed on it. I think it has empowered good missionaries and has increased their teaching. I've done splits recently and the missionaries did a fabulous job with the lesson and let the investigator ask a lot of questions, which were answered by both the missionaries and me in a decent manner. These were decent missionaries though and you could tell they not only cared but had practiced a lot.

A couple weeks after that discussion, our ward went through a period where the missionaries were downright awful. They struggled even giving spiritual thoughts to ward members and they couldn't hold a dinner conversation. We had them over a couple times and found out more than I wanted to know about their girlfriends. I didn't dare go on splits with those guys or any of the elders we've had since them. However, these types of missionaries are the ones that would have really benefitted from the six correlated lessons as they could just read/recite them and get the doctrine across.

[TripletDaddy]

I've posted before but based on my experiences (similar to yours, surface), PMG let's great teachers shine and exposes mediocre teachers. Unfortunately, most of the youth we send out, through no fault of their own, are mediocre teachers.

Almost without exception, my splits with the missionaries were the same....unfocused, cursory, inadequate, etc. They turned to me a bunch to answer questions. It was weird and unimpressive. And perhaps by coincidence, but our elders did the same thing you observed....they glossed over stuff and gave off topic responses.

I think of this way....are there many other teaching disciplines that encourage this ad hoc, "let's see where this takes us" approach? I'm trying to imagine going to law school and the teacher asking, "so what do you guys want to talk about next class?"

I think a more organized approach would serve everyone well. One thing I would change about the 6 discussion approach...don't invite for baptism in the second discussion. There is no rush. Wait a little bit.

[Surfah]

I've posted before but based on my experiences (similar to yours, surface), PMG let's great teachers shine and exposes mediocre teachers. Unfortunately, most of the youth we send out, through no fault of their own, are mediocre teachers.

Almost without exception, my splits with the missionaries were the same....unfocused, cursory, inadequate, etc. They turned to me a bunch to answer questions. It was weird and unimpressive. And perhaps by coincidence, but our elders did the same thing you observed....they glossed over stuff and gave off topic responses.

I think of this way....are there many other teaching disciplines that encourage this ad hoc, "let's see where this takes us" approach? I'm trying to imagine going to law school and the teacher asking, "so what do you guys want to talk about next class?"

I think a more organized approach would serve everyone well. One thing I would change about the 6 discussion approach...don't invite for baptism in the second discussion. There is no rush. Wait a little bit.

I am on the fence about the baptismal invitation. I know one change they made to the standard 6 when I was out was that they added a baptismal invitation at the end of the 1st discussion as the Spirit prompted. I only did a handful of times on my mission. Amazingly enough they were all later baptized.

The invitation at the end of the 2nd discussion wasn't too bothersome for me though. At the very least it defines some sort of goal that we're working towards. I think the way it can be asked though should be changed. Instead of just pinning the commitment pattern "will you" on them, it can be softened and instead highlight the preparatory nature of the discussions and additional commitments.

[beefytee]

I think of this way....are there many other teaching disciplines that encourage this ad hoc, "let's see where this takes us" approach? I'm trying to imagine going to law school and the teacher asking, "so what do you guys want to talk about next class?"

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[BigPiney]

Some how I ended up on the email list for the MP here. I have never even met him before. Anyway, he spams my account with missionary moments, letters to him from missionaries, activities and events, etc. I was getting like 2-3 emails from him daily. I didn't have the heart to ask him to remove my name so I put his email address in my Spam filter.

This is a perfect opportunity to respond to his email with your concerns. If he is going to spam you, at least tell him to better prepare his missionaries and have have him focus on teaching techniques in zone conference.

I somehow got on an email list of the guy that was heading Prop 8 for our stake. It was all I could not to reply all with to some things. I did correct him privately once on something that was just plain wrong and he then sent a correction to everyone fixing his mistake. I way if someone is sending you multiple messages a day, you have more than enough right to send them something back and expect them to at least read it.

[TripletDaddy]

Montessori schools dont let kids just choose whatever they want to do. they give them options from which to choose.

PMG literally allows invetigators to dictate.....you want to talk about temples, fine, lets talk about that. If that takes us to a discussion of the law of chastity, lets talk about that. Next week, let's talk about the apostasy.

It is very unorganized. Although I think that the Montessori method is probably a good estimation of what is happening in PMG.

[wuapinmon]

I think a more organized approach would serve everyone well. One thing I would change about the 6 discussion approach...don't invite for baptism in the second discussion. There is no rush. Wait a little bit.

My mission had us teach the Law of chastity and the Word of Wisdom at the end of the 1st discussion, AND commit them to living them. If they did, we then were required to use this line, "¿Si ora sobre lo que le hemos enseñado hoy y el Espíritu Santo le dice que estas cosas son verdaderas, se bautizará Ud. el 16 de febrero a las 6PM?"

I bristled at this because I refused to get baptized for about six months until I actually believed and had time to reflect on what I was feeling. I hated doing it, but I did it.

[shoganai]

There were two glaring problems with the old discussion format.

1. It was completely inadequate and inappropriate for teaching in cultures that didn't have Christian backgrounds. I discovered in Japan that the first discussion was useless. There are so many things that a culturally indoctrinated Buddhist needs time to digest, and the discussion format simply rushes through it. It only got worse with subsequent discussions. Before you know it, you're challenging someone who is barely getting the hang of reading the Japanese translation of the Book of Mormon to stop smoking and pay tithing.

2. Memorizing the discussions became standard practice and a rite of passage in many (if not most) missions. If you're speaking a foreign language there are certainly benefits to this. But I think it is no more effective as a teaching style than the unplanned, unfocused lessons the missionaries have now. In the long run, a lot of discussion-memorizing elders could only comfortably recite a translated passage, and had no clue how to go outside that box when it was necessary. Relating to my first point, this also contributed to a tendency to simply push through from one discussion to the next without letting an investigator catch their breath.

I think the church has probably gone from one end of the spectrum to the other - from strict structure and control to a completely open-ended format. My opinion is that the PMG format is better. Bad teachers now, would be equally as bad before, the symptoms would just be different. And, I'm a firm believer that those we judge as the best "teachers" are really no more effective in the long run when you factor in retention rates. It's about member support and feeling the spirit, not giving polished lessons

[thesaint258]

It seems like the issue is more with the quality of the teaching than the program. The good missionaries I knew knew when to slow down the discussion and let the investigator control where things went. They focused on questions or issues the investigator had rather than simply charge through the discussions. I don't know how the teaching at the MTC has changed since Preach My Gospel was introduced, but I don't recall there being a lot of instruction on how to be a good teacher. I think that's the area the church needs to focus on most.

[Pheidippides]

I am honestly curious here - what do missionaries do these days when somebody figures out how to use Google? I can run circles around the missionaries with my knowledge of our history and practices and I'm neither malicious nor in the top quartile of such knowledge on this board. What does PMG have to say about Fanny Alger, for example, or about David O.'s letter that says that decaf coffee and tea are not against the WoW? It was easy to (naively) dismiss such things when I was an Elder - not that I had to - but I am spending a lot of time clarifying things to my friend that is meeting with the missionaries now.

[Surfah]

It seems like the issue is more with the quality of the teaching than the program. The good missionaries I knew knew when to slow down the discussion and let the investigator control where things went. They focused on questions or issues the investigator had rather than simply charge through the discussions. I don't know how the teaching at the MTC has changed since Preach My Gospel was introduced, but I don't recall there being a lot of instruction on how to be a good teacher. I think that's the area the church needs to focus on most.

This is true, but the problem as DDD illustrated is the approach. Before we went into the appointment last night we had a 5 minute pow-wow outside the car while the two Elders decided what they wanted to teach. They determined that they were going to teach Joseph Smith and the Holy Ghost because that's what they felt like teaching. At least with standard discussions you have an idea of what is to be taught and what the focus should be and they build upon each other. Last night they talk about the HG, give the investigator a fleece blanket they made and then popped in the DVD of The Restoration. There was no preface to the video explaining the role of prophets or anything. After the video one of the Elders asks me to share my testimony about Joseph Smith and how I came to know he is a true prophet. While I am not sure that the standard 6 would make these two Elders more engaging teachers, there is little doubt that I think they could benefit from the structure of organized topics of discussion.

I don't think that the standard 6 is the right solution, but given the choice I'd take it over PMG. Really, I agree with Shoganai. I think PMG was a step in the right discussion, but that pendulum has swung too far.

Something surprising to me and I don't know if it's related or not, but of the last sets of missionaries we have had, none have gone to college before going on their missions. In my mission there was a good number of guys who went to school before their mission and there was a discernible difference most of the time between them and those that didn't.